DH claims I shout at DC

[Rubyinthedust81]

Becoming an issue now DH has now said on one than more one occasion that I shout at my DC. He refers to an incident witnessed by BIL when I asked DC 'to get into car quick as we need to go!' said BIL was concerned but not sure what the concern was about. I checked back with DC as I def do not remember yelling apart from saying 'get in quick!' DC fed back and said I did not yell.

DH has now said its getting annoying, saying things like us three ignore you when you start making demands, this all you do etc. I feel most of the time I really don't as I have acted on previous observations. I can make demands ie put clothes away, no phones, pick up shoes etc and can demand quite a few times as DC do not always act when asked. I feeling anxious about this, feel I am being shut down and now am thinking twice when asking DC to do things or give them telling off. I work, study, do most of the domestic chores cooking etc I have a challenging teenager, money worries etc, I can get stressed at times (menopausal) but don't think its the same picture as DH paints. I really feel like going away on my own for a few days to sort my head out but then don't want to be accused of being a neglectful mother.

Do you demand or request? Do you use please and thank you? I know kids don't always listen and it can get very frustrating but you need to ask yourself if you would be happy being spoken to like you do your DH and DC. Not saying that you do anything wrong as I've no idea how you do speak to them but their feelings are valid as well. Of course, DH could be gaslighting you.

I do try to be polite as possible but there is only so many times you can say please!!

This is a tough one, op, because we're only getting your side of it. Your husband could be gaslighting you, or you could be lacking in self -awareness. I know someone who is totally unaware/in denial as to how awful she speaks to her husband and kids. Everyone around her sees it, but she doesn't. I don't know if anyone can give you any helpful feedback under the circumstances.

It's a hard one because sometimes you do have to put your foot down with children who aren't listening. Just ask yourself honestly, do you yell or speak to them disrespectfully? This sounds like one for self reflection because we can't know.

I did once hear a friend apologise to her son for yelling at him. I had heard her, she used her normal voice. I was like, huh? So perceptions of yelling may vary.

DH is accusing you of shouting when you didn’t- confirmed by your child - because BIL told him he was concerned? Why is BIL poking his nose in and discussing you with dh?
My ex started telling me I shouted at him, basically when he didn’t want to be with me anymore. He used to say I was always shouting at him and he didn’t deserve it <sadface>. But I had never shouted at him. The reality was he didn’t like me disagreeing with him or challenging him about anything, ever.
In your shoes I’d want to find out what he’s perceiving as you shouting. Ask him to tell you straight away when he thinks you’re shouting. He might mean things like you calling up the stairs to the kids “come on, we need to go now” or “dinner’s ready”. That isn’t what most people would call shouting at the kids.

Do go away for a few days, you deserve a break

And DH can pick up the slack, see how he enjoys the sharp end

Then when you come back tell him
You're concerned he's discussing you with BIL
You're concerned about your "shouting" as you don't recognise that
Can he help you by telling you at the time not when it's too late
Can he help you by backing you up when DC don't do things on the fifth---- first ask
Fuck off

Take it from there

Does he ever take charge with the kids? Or is that all your responsibility and he has no experience of how many times you're having to tell them to do things?
My husband's said similar to me, twice now, but only ever when I've brought up my concern that he's completely detached from family life, he then throws it at me that I'm always shouting.

Like you I've found myself assessing my interactions with the kids and actually found that I'm constantly cajoling them along, making everything into a joke to avoid tantrums whereas he is actually really abrupt with them but then insists that I shout. They're 6&4, everything takes a little longer, and if I didn't chivvy them along we'd never get anywhere on time but he calls that shouting.

I work, study, do most of the domestic chores cooking etc I have a challenging teenager, money worries etc,

Does he do all of this too? Or is he the auditor? The manager? Telling you what to do but not actually having to do any of it. It's really easy to be a perfect parent when someone else is doing the heavy lifting.

DH used to sometimes say I was shouting when I wasn't. Hyper-critical father made him very sensitive to tone. I toned it down, he recognised his own issues.

Well, on the face of it, it seems that you're being treated unfairly here. I know everyone on MN always suggests counselling, but I really feel it would help here. You have a communication problem (either with DH, or if he has a point then with the kids) and counsellors are usually very good at sorting out communication problems. I think you and DH would really benefit from discussing this calmly with a third party present to make sure you don't get shut down.

DH has now said its getting annoying, saying things like us three ignore you when you start making demands, this all you do etc

This raises a red flag in my mind because ‘us versus you’ is a classic tactic used by abusive men to isolate women / make them feel anxious and therefore take on even more responsibility.

Maybe if he did his share of the chores you wouldn’t have to ask them to do things?

I think you need to be less anxious and find your anger about why you’re working out of the home and also expected to be in charge at home aa well. What does H bring to the table? Maybe if he does his half of the chores you wouldn’t have to ask people to do things?

He used to say I was always shouting at him and he didn’t deserve it <sadface>. But I had never shouted at him. The reality was he didn’t like me disagreeing with him or challenging him about anything, ever.
My Ex did the same on the few occasions I stood up for myself. Sometimes too when I was standing up for the kids. It was to shut me down, which it did completely if I was standing up on my own behalf, I still worry sometimes I'm being too loud, double checking I'm not yelling. He did a lot of damage.

Might be a crazy suggestion, but could you ask BIL if you were a little loud or something like that? What's your DH normally like, is it likely he's shutting you down or over sensitive due to his childhood? He's either gaslighting you or overly sensitive or right. PPs suggestion of attending counselling with you DH to talk might be a good idea, provided he's not abusive.

If you are being a bit too bossy you should be shut down in a gentle way.

Usually it is men who are a bit too sergeant-majorish, but perhaps you have fallen into that trap.

And if you have fallen into this trap, the most worrying thing is your child has become accustomed to think that yelling is normal.

Ask Dh what Bil reported you said.
It's perfectly fine to change your vocabulary as things move on, for example you start off with :

Right everybody we're leaving in five. We're going to be getting in the car in five, ok come on get ready now, we're leaving - getting in the car now. I need you to get in the car now. get in the car now .

All totally ok.

Is he -

Trying to gas light you so he can leave guilt free?

Trying to manipulate you so you stop asking him to do things he doesn't want to do?

Or

Does he have a point

I'd monitor yourself, ask people you trust who spend time with you and your family and maybe record yourself (tricky as harder to be natural but your tone might be the issue)

If you think he's being unfair you need to ask him to stop telling you how to communicate but also ask for other suggestions about how to communicate need. Would he prefer a text or a note?

What's his parenting like? Does he get involved with the kids at all?

Even if you are bossy or shouting, it doesn't mean you are being neglectful or violent towards your children. Yes you can work on your communication and it can be annoying for others, but anything more than that is a big stretch coming from your husband who is there every day and supposedly knows you!

If he is really using terms like "us 3 ignore you" and refering to "BIL was concerned" then I think it's really odd and manipulative.

Did your DH start saying these things after the comment from BIL? Does your BIL have kids? How much does your DH share the workload that comes with house and kids and life?

DH has mentioned before a few times BIL has grown up kids so knows the score. DH does wash up etc but does not ask enforce requests screen time etc shoes and coats away. They could be left where they are for days !

Well whether or not you are being demanding is one thing.

Your DH is using the 'higher authority' tactic. The 'everyone says so'. Or 'even Uncle Jimmy agreed'.

Such a person won't take responsibility for addressing their own issue.
DH could an issue with you asking him to do stuff or god knows some other beef he's not openly saying.
But he is using others as proxy because he's avoiding addressing it with you himself.

He's using others as a human shield with the 'us three' or 'BIL thinks' when he really means 'It feels like you shout at me when you want something' or 'I feel annoyed with you when you ask me to do something'.

So next time just say 'It sounds like you think I have done something wrong?'
Then see what he comes back.

Just a suggestion as to what could be going on.

We had this. Minus a BIl.

I told dh if they did it the 1st 6 times I asked nicely I wouldn't need to shout.

Next time I let every one get on with it. He couldn't understand why nothing was done. And so he asked them to do whatever it was. After th 5th time. Guess who shouted?

Yeah, he never moans now and reinforces they need to listen to me.

They are good kids. But all kids don't listen and wait until you are about to go crazy. Equally we are human and there's only so many times we can smile and ask the same thing over and over without going insane.

How is your hearing, OP? My grandmother would bellow because as she became increasingly deaf she didn't realise others weren't.

How is his behaviour to you generally? Does he hyper criticise, gaslight you into thinking you're this, you're that ... You know what you're like ... Etc?

Is he up to no good, making up criticisms to store up against you and make others believe them too, because he is getting his ducks in a row ready to leave?

How are your parenting styles? If he is much more laissez faire, happy to accept lagging, faffing and mess, then your lower tolerance level may seem abrupt to him.

What is your voice like compared to his? Do you have more resonance and projection, is he more softly spoken etc?

Did he come from a home where walking on eggshells was the norm and any perceived raised voices trigger bad memories?

So much potentially going on here

Interesting you say that had my ears tested long ago - don’t pick up low frequency sounds - years off attending gigs and clubs! Parenting style’s laid back compared to mine but no demands made on homework screen time etc.

Thanks but don’t have funds to go away

Ok. So maybe that’s a no. It’s hard for us to tell, we aren’t there. And often kids won’t say as they are scared of the retribution if they do. Not fair to put them in this spot.

either your husband and his brother are gaslighting you or you are shouting and demanding. It’s hard for us to say.

DH does wash up etc but does not ask enforce requests screen time etc shoes and coats away.

Because he wants to be the cool dad.

You’ve glossed over his contribution to the house and family? What chores does he do?

I think your BIL just made the issue worse (as his kids are older he might not remember how it is with young kids) and as your DH isn't the one doing most of the work he gets the easier parenting role. It's difficult for the default parent who also does major of the house/life work. He might not understand how much work truly goes into everything and getting the kids do what is needed.
As one of the PPs said, perhaps you could take a step back after telling the kids something once. Next round you tell your DH that as he thinks you shout at them he better take control of the situation and let him get on with it. After he has to deal with reality of getting the kids do something over and over again he might actually realise how frustrating it is.
I don't like the way he is turning 'them' against 'you' and this is something I would raise with him.