Dog v Cat

[Wineat5isfine]

Sorry if this is the wrong topic to post this in, but it’s for traffic. My apologies x

We have a very secure boundary - 6ft solid fences - because we have a big dog. He is as soft as anything, but has a high prey drive.

One of our neighbours has a new cat which keeps coming into our garden. Our dog has very nearly caught this cat on a few occasions. I hate to think what might happen if he does catch it 😢

Ive told this neighbour of our concerns, but she is adamant that we are responsible for anything that happens to her cat, even if it’s on our property and that she will claim compensation from us / seek legal advice, if anything happens.

Ive googled so much and found conflicting advice. Does anyone have any idea if we would be responsible? ☹️

I'm a cat person. If my cat was stupid enough to get attacked by a dog in its own garden then that's his own stupid fault. I certainly wouldn't be holding you or the dog responsible. Thankfully cats are canny little buggers and the chances of you dog getting hold of one I'd say is slim.

@TeenLifeMum No, it's most definitely NOT normal for a dog to only go in a secure private garden accompanied. (Though the daft bloody lab will only go out first thing in the morning if you go with him. It's like monsters form out there overnight, but once you've been out with the giant sook, he's fine all day)

He's NOT aggressive, he's prey driven. There's a big difference (though not so much for the prey)

@Wineat5isfine I think all you can do is train him with a command & treats. A command that tells him to leave something alone is invaluable. Whether it's the neighbours cat, a squirrel in the dog park or crap on a walk.

If you don't want to do it for your neighbour, do it to save yourself the upset & nightmares if he does catch the cat.

ill be interested to see what the law actually says, but I hope it would say you're not responsible for any misfortune of the cat as it's your land, 6ft fence etc.

Sorry, I didn’t mean that all cats can outrun all dogs. Just that the vast majority of them can.

Only on MN have I ever heard that people supervise their dogs in their own garden. It’s absurd! In the summer our back door stays open all day so the dog can wander in and out as they please.

@Wineat5isfine your neighbour sounds wholly unreasonable. I am a cat owner and would never want to limit my cat to being indoors only, but with that I accept that there is a level of risk from the roads, other animals and all sorts of things. I certainly wouldn’t hold a dog owner responsible if they were in their own garden.

A garden can be secure for a dog and still allow in a cat - cats are much better climbers and jumpers than dogs.

OP I think you need to work on your dog’s prey drive, or work on cat-proofing your garden. It’s not your fault, but it’s easier for you to take preventative steps than the cat’s owner (even though they are being unreasonable and bloody reckless with their cat!).

can you work with a dog trainer on the prey drive?

there are fence toppers you can get which would stop the cat getting over the fence into your garden.

@grumpypedestrian I guess I’ve learned that all the dogs I’ve met are odd. Mine just isn’t fussed about going to play in the garden. He wants to be around us so if I leave the door open he won’t just wonder out there because he’ll be bumbling around dh, me or dd1. He doesn’t poop in the garden and will reluctantly wee but only if we go out with him. He’d prefer to walk to the end of the road. Neighbour’s two dogs are the same. Next door but one put their dog outside alone… and he barks until let in so I’m not sure that’s actually a case of him being happy unaccompanied.

Thank you so much for the feedback / advice.

I definitely won’t be muzzling my dog or restricting his access to the garden. During the warmer months, he pretty much spends all day out there.

We have 6ft fences on all boundaries, he would never be able to get out.

He is very receptive to training - his recall is excellent, along with lots of other things. But we have never been able to train his HPD out of him.

I have a lot of friends that have cats and all of them are house cats and live a wonderful life. I think that as a cat owner, if you allow them to roam, you have to face the consequences if something horrible happens.

I agree with this.

Eh? What about cats?! The average cat must decimate x10 wild animals than the average pet dog in their dreams, maybe

I had a Greyhound, was cat trained with our cat but other cats were free game to her. I took precautions- checked no cats were in the garden before letting her out and one particularly stubborn cat who kept coming to terrorise mine I put the hound on a lead and took her outside when it was out there so it saw her and that she clearly wanted it so it didn't do that any more. Once there was a cat fight in our garden when the door was open and luckily I heard and understood what was going on before she did because our cat would also have been at risk from her, once the prey drive takes over all bets would have been off. Luckily she had a low prey drive for a Greyhound but it was still there, it's not a case of train it out of them with the vast majority of sighthounds!

Criminal Damage Act 1971
If a person kills or injures a cat belonging to another person, they may have committed an offence under this act, because the law regards cats as property.

*"If a 'person' kills or injures a cat" - not a dog. We don't confuse the two.

The Common Law Duty of Care
It is often thought that cats have a right to roam wherever they wish. This idea is based on the fact that dog and livestock owners are obliged by law to keep their animals under control - but these duties do not apply to cat owners. The law recognises that cats are less likely to cause injury to people or damage property than some other animals. However, cat owners do have a duty at law to take reasonable care to ensure that their cats do not injure people or damage property. Cases involving damage to property or injury to people by cats are rare”

"Keep their animals under control" in a public place.
*Not on your OWN private property. It's a very different comparison.

Foodfior thought:
Private property law is different from public spaces.
If the dog jumped over the fence into the cats garden, the dog owner would be liable, would it not.
If you cat jumped the fence into a dogs garden and injured the dog, would the cat owner be liable?
Can your neighbour tell you what you can and can't do in your own garden?
Cats kill wildlife every day.
Foxes kill, attack and injures cats every day.
Cats get run over every day. Should the driver face legal action- if not why not? Why would it be different here

Cats do like to come into our garden and leave deposits that stink to high heaven. My dog will deter cats from doing this. Yes she is very fast. Now they know better. They take their chances, they get a workout. 3 cats used to come in our garden. Now just one on the odd occasion. Now they can leave their deposits for other neighbours.

There are many ways to stop your cats going into your neighbours garden, if you care that much.

All you can do is buy a water pistol and clap at the cat/chase it out of your garden/squirt with water whenever you see it. You can also buy cat repellent, not sure how effective it is. Just try to discourage it from your garden and then you've done your bit.

I don't think a dog with a high prey drive sounds particularly safe for any living thing though, including children.

HPD doesn’t mean not safe with children at all. 100%.

I mean, I would try and “cat-proof” the garden as much as you can- as in, citrus around the top of the fence, and other deterrents. Water pistol is also a good idea. Also good opportunity to try and perfect recall in the house and the “leave it” command.

But other than that, I think it's out of your hands.
We had a similar situation on my old road- a neighbour's cat was an absolute menace- used to spend his entire summer getting into other houses in the street. Unfortunately he was killed by another neighbours’ dog. They weren’t in the house at the time, window was left open. Absolutely hideous situation.

I think there comes a point where you need to take responsibility for the pet you own, and that works both ways.

Cats are smart he'll soon realise to keep away from the dog. Probably drive it bonkers staring it out from a high.

Is it a street-smart adult cat (who will quickly learn that your garden is not a safe place) or a young cat with no sense who shouldn't be out yet?

The water pistol is a good idea, you could also put wobbly spikey trellis on the top of your fence that the cat won't want to climb over.
If you have appealing areas of bare earth then try covering them so that the cat doesn't get used to using your garden as its toilet when the dog is absent

I don't think a dog with a high prey drive sounds particularly safe for any living thing though, including children.

And yet they are. You are more likely to bite your sighthound than they are to bite you. Obviously ALL breeds can bite people but on the whole they’re seriously gentle (with people, but you’re absolutely fucked if you’re a squirrel or a rabbit 🤣).

I don't think a dog with a high prey drive sounds particularly safe for any living thing though, including children
Wait til you hear what Dachshunds were bred for…

Absolutely wetting myself at HPD meaning not safe around children/aggressive, that's not how it works.

For the record I have a cat and a dog (the cat is far smarter!)
I wouldn't have a cat and keep it indoors. What kind of a life is that? However as others have said I accept that if the cat goes out it may get hit by a car/eaten by a fox or, if he's stupid enough to go into a garden with a HPD dog, attacked by the dog.

It would be really sad but better 10 years as a cat that's allowed outside than 20 years stuck in staring at the same 4 walls.

Ridiculous

The idea of supervising your dog in its own secure garden because some entitled neighbour thinks their cat should be able to hang about in there, is absurd.

Also a lot of people on this thread who don't understand dogs. You can't just train high prey drive out of a sighthound. It's like training beagles not to want to get their nose down. It doesn't mean the dog is unsafe, they just have an instinct to chase small furries. Same as dachshunds and terriers.

OP, your neighbour doesn't have a leg to stand on. I'd try to cat proof my boundaries just to keep relations but if the cat comes in and is caught, tough unfortunately.

Those citing the things about postal workers will find the dangerous dogs act applies to incidents with humans and not cats.

I know several people, all with sighthounds, whose dogs have caught and killed their neighbours cats when the cat has entered a secure garden. No action was able to be taken against the dog or owner. Just like how if a cat is run over, you can't take action against the driver.

I regularly supersoak my neighbours daft cat who won't stop coming in the garden despite our dog who charges at it barking. The neighbours don't like it but they should keep the cat inside then. I won't let him harass cats in public but I'm not having use of our own garden limited by them.

I do have a quick check in our garden for 'what is the dratted saluki shouting at now' and give the squirrels a heads up before I open the door (not that she stands a chance there, they can levitate)...

Recently theres been a dimwit cat out there, he or she has had a saluki up the bum a couple of times and hasn't been seen since, so hopefully has learned to stay out (my garden is very tempting as we have bird feeders and a lot of squirrel/bird activity).

That is as far as I am going though, cat proofing the yard would mean any cat that DID get in would find it far harder to get out - cat proofing methods are designed to stop exit, not prevent entry (to prevent entry I'd need to put an outward overhang with rollers on the leading edge. I can't legally do that, I'd be encroaching on other peoples space).

Supervising them out there is impractical, a quick check about is fine, and they're not out there if we are upstairs, but thats it, more than that would be unreasonable!

As for prey drive = danger to all life, how ridiculous! Tell me you know nothing about dogs without...

Prey drive is usually pretty specific - the saluki will absolutely go for furry stuff, rats, cats, rabbits, hare - she is an accomplished ratter. She dislikes pigeons but that is more of a hobby, faced with a non-flying pigeon, she just shouted at it from a safe distance (least it explode, I dunno!).

Birds of prey are to be gazed at in admiration and presumably, ancestral memory of following hawks to quarry.

Any other bird life is to be ignored as it is Rude and Outrageous and best pretend it doesn't exist (in the manner of an extremely snobbish member of royalty, pretending the serfs and rabble aren't there). She can stand two feet from the window bird feeder and ignore sparrows, robins, blue tits etc completely.

There is a reason for this - dogs bred to hunt like sighthounds learn very quickly not to waste their time, in fact it is instinctive, on quarry that is of no use to them, that they can't catch or no one wants them to catch.

She chooses to let her cat roam free, so she is taking that risk. Your dog is allowed to be free in your garden on your private property. The cat will learn to stay away.....or not.
I hate having cats in out garden, our dog also dislikes it. So if they come they take their chance.

Surely the most balanced viewpoint is to take reasonable precautions but accept that OP can’t prevent her dog killing prey that wanders up to it any more than cat owners can reasonably contain an outdoor cat? I absolutely hate the thought of my little cat being killed by a dog or a car, for that matter. But she loves being outside and isn’t harming anyone (she goes to the toilet indoors but outdoor cats tend to bury their waste and not bother anyone much). Both the cat hate and the people implying that the dog should be kept indoors or something are unreasonable.

So you're happy to have your cat killed rather than keep it indoors or in a catio? I simply can't understand this attitude. I can't imagine being so careless of any living creature in my care. I'm coming to the conclusion that a lot of people, possibly the majority, who have cats only have them because they don't actually have to put any effort in. If it gets run over, oh well just get another one.

This is batshit and just shows that you don't really understand cats.
I would NEVER have an indoor cat, in the same way that I would NEVER own a bird in a cage. If you want to own an animal, you should allow them to be as natural as they can in their livestyles.
I have had cats since I was tiny, so that is about 50 years. I have lived in houses, flats, city, suburbs and country. My cats have always had a cat flap to come and go as they please.
They are also neutered which helps to stop them roaming too far.
I have never lost a cat to road kill, foxes or anything else like that. My cats usually die of old age.

Pet cats are mostly like to be found asleep on a bed, or curled up in the summer in the middle of your prize geraniums in your own garden, they like their owners and they like their own territory. But yes they do also roam.
So many cats over 50 years, yes I would take that remote outside chance of them being killed by a fox over the option of them living their whole life caged.

It is called risk assessment. We do it all the time in life. I teach my kids to be independant, even though it would be 'safer' for me to keep them tied to my apron strings.