Dog v Cat

[Wineat5isfine]

Sorry if this is the wrong topic to post this in, but it’s for traffic. My apologies x

We have a very secure boundary - 6ft solid fences - because we have a big dog. He is as soft as anything, but has a high prey drive.

One of our neighbours has a new cat which keeps coming into our garden. Our dog has very nearly caught this cat on a few occasions. I hate to think what might happen if he does catch it 😢

Ive told this neighbour of our concerns, but she is adamant that we are responsible for anything that happens to her cat, even if it’s on our property and that she will claim compensation from us / seek legal advice, if anything happens.

Ive googled so much and found conflicting advice. Does anyone have any idea if we would be responsible? ☹️

Basically, you fence against your own. i.e as long as your garden is secure and your animals are contained, you can't be held responsible if a cat comes into that area and gets hurt/killed by your dog. In my previous home I had a paddock at the end of my garden where I kept my ponies. The paddock was securely fenced, and I used to let my dogs in there when I was tending my ponies. The neighbour across the other side of the paddock had cats, which used to sometimes be in the paddock. I used to check the paddock before allowing the dogs out, but there were places where the cats could be out of sight. Usually the cats would scarper as soon as my dogs entered the field ... but sadly not always, resulting in a couple of deaths over the years. I told the neighbours on both occasions, and they were hugely understanding, saying they had to have cats because of the mouse/rat population (we were in a rural area). I was terribly concerned though, and 'phoned the police to ask if I could be prosecuted. Their answer was that as long as I wasn't actually trapping the cats, then releasing them in front of the dogs as some sort of 'sport', then I was blame free, and couldn't be accused of anything.
I continued to do my best for the cats, and started letting older, slower dogs out first, thereby giving any 'intruders' the chance to make an escape, before letting out the younger, more prey driven dogs, which did help the situation.
I live elsewhere now, have just three dogs, and the neighbours have a cat. In fact, there's quite a few cats around here. I have a dog flap in the back door and my dogs (two terriers and a Rottweiler x Doberman) have unlimited access to the garden. I've never seen a cat in the garden, I presume the cats can smell the dogs and give us a wide berth!

You still have a duty to keep the dog under your control even in your own private property. Imagine if someone from the Royal Mail came into your garden to deliver something - you can't just let such a person get attacked because your dog is on private property. This is not correct reasoning. The threshold for being out of control will be a lot higher for another (non-human) animal than for a human, but the same principle may apply.

Totally agree.

If the owners cat attacked someone’s pet guinea pig or rabbit in someone else’s garden would the owners still claim ‘right to roam’ and avoid responsibility?

It’s your property and you’ve been responsible, you shouldn’t have to worry about other peoples cats roaming where your dogs are.

It’s annoying that cats kill wildlife but dog owners still get piled on.

She'll be standing on no legs if your dog does kill or injure her cat -she's aware of the risk, it is her legal responsibility to keep her pet on her property, it is not your responsibility to keep her pet out of yours.

However, you have to live next door to her, and legality aside, she can make life bloody awkward if she wants to.

Join Dog Law SOS, (doglaw.co.uk) this gives you legal advice when you want it for a small annual fee.

Find out who owns the fence between the properties - hopefully, it is yours.

Advise her to fit an inward overhang and roller for the most safe option - just to the adjoining side/end may do the trick. You can fit a roller to the top so her cat can't get a grip on the top of the fence, however if it gets in via some other route this WILL trap her cat IN your garden and she should be aware of that.

(If it isn't yours then its hers and theres not a lot more you can do there, but I would ask in writing (probably via text) so that you have a refusal in writing.)

Then should her cat get in, you've taken more than reasonable steps to stop it, make her aware of the options and risks or you have proof she refused to allow you to take reasonable steps to stop it.

Spend some time squirting her cat with a water pistol any time it comes over the fence. Owner won't like it but better a wet cat than a mullered cat.

The cat cut out 'ornaments' with reflective eyes can also help repel incoming cats however you'll need to teach your dog this is not a real cat... some will learn, some not so much!

One thing that will likely be suggested that I would NOT do, is muzzle your dog - a lurcher (and many other dogs) a/can grip fur/skin through a muzzle if they pin the prey between floor and muzzle and b/ will 'muzzle punch', effectively use their face/muzzle as a weapon and batter the prey to death. At the same time, this takes far longer than simply gripping small furry prey and shaking the head quickly so your dog is at risk of face/eye injuries from the frightened cat, which tend to further prolong an attack.

Squirrels are aggressive, fast, and extremely good climbers, I can't imagine a cat killing one, especially not without getting severe injuries.

Cats need to run, being on a lead doesn't allow them healthy behavior and an appropriate catio requires a large garden. If I knew my dog was a danger I would act accordingly and not look at how much I can get away with. Dogs can wear muzzles, leads/harnesses and be trained. Our dog was supervised and trained.

You have a duty like this where there is an implied right of access - as you say, for Royal Mail, delivery people, emergency services etc.

There is no implied right of access across most rear gardens, nor does an implied right of access apply to a cat.

You may be liable if for example, a child climbs into your back garden to fetch a ball and you haven't sufficiently fenced your property in a way that would have prevented this.

This still does not apply to a cat.

My neighbours cats are constantly killing squirrels. I loathe those felines.

You are responsible for keeping your pet safe and ensuring that other people and their property won't be endangered by your pet. However, this doesn't extend to protecting the safety of wild animals that stray onto your property. Any squirrels or pidgeons that hanf around in your garden are legitimate prey for your dog (he will probably never catch them).

If a cat isn't kept indoors/restricted to its owner's garden but is allowed to roam freely then it has the status of a wild animal in situations of whether or not animal behaviour is supposed to be controlled. That's why there's no penalty for your cat shitting on a neighbour's garden but allowing a dog to foul off your own property is an offence.

In the regrettable event that the cat is caught and injured or killed by your dog, you would not be held legally responsible if they were to sue you because there is nothing you can reasonably do to stop a random cat coming into your garden.

However it is very unlikely. Cats are agile and have a very highly developed sense of self-preservation as well as being intelligent and easily bored. The cat probably greatly enjoys pissing off the dog by brazenly entering the garden and then neatly getting well out of reach. The exercise is stimulating for both of them and there's unlikely to be any real danger until such time as the cat starts losing agility due to old age. At which point if she has any sense (and she probably does) she will start being more cautious.

I can’t believe people suggesting you should muzzle a dog in their own garden, the dog is in their own place and the cat is intruding.

Someone could be letting their pet guinea pig or rabbit play in a garden, would cat owners restrict their cats ‘right to roam’ to reduce the risk of the cat killing other people’s pets? Not likely.

Cats are allowed to kill wildlife but dogs can’t be allowed in their own secure garden because cats trespass? Don’t be ridiculous.

Apart from being a puppy I never supervise my dog in my garden, the only access to the front is through the house .

I have both a dog and a cat (later is indoors only). As your dog is inside your secure garden, it's the neighbour's job to cat-proof theirs. There are various solutions for this.

I'm a cat owner (username mighr give it away).
My understanding is that if one of my cats was killed or injured by a dog while in that dog's garden (or house), then very sad though it would be that's my responsibility.
If the dog escaped and attacked my cat on the street or in my garden, then it is the responsibility if the dog owner.
So OP - I think your neighbour is talking rubbish.

You're not responsible if someone's cat comes onto your property and gets itself hurt.

If people are going to insist on cats having the "right to roam" then they also need to accept that it comes with risks.

I have a dog and three cats and none of them are allowed off my property to be a nuisance to other people.

We have a dog and he loves just being out in the garden whenever he feels like it, so there would be no way I'd restrict his access to it. If we are out there he will always be out there with us, but also happy if he can lay out on his own.

Until a couple of weeks ago ( (18 years old and fell asleep)we also had a cat (Ragdoll so an 'indoor cat'). She also loved being outside in the garden, often as not with the dog. Other cats come in our garden occasionally but never when the dog is out there. Although, there is a young ginger cat that is getting braver. Especially as it winds our dog up

Your neighbour is being ridiculous. Cats roam, and really, there is no restricting where they go without boxing them in (thus the saying that something impossible is 'like herding cats'

Please don't restrict your dog's use of his garden to pacify some idiot.

I highly doubt that your neighbour could take any legal action against you if something were to happen to her cat. She’d have to prove your dog is dangerous and out of control, which means a danger to people not small animals. I wouldn’t restrict your dogs access to his garden for the sake of someone else’s pet. Cats aren’t stupid. You may find that after a few more times being chased out of your garden by your dog it’ll stop coming back. My neighbour’s cat used to come in our garden all the time but quickly learned that wasn’t a good idea anymore when we got our golden retriever in January. We never had to ask the neighbour to keep the cat out, cat just decided to himself.

Lurcher?

I’d seek legal clarification, and if you aren’t liable then I’d sent her a solicitor letter to that effect. If you are liable, you may need to cat proof your garden fence if you can. I don’t think you will be though.

I say this as a cat owner. If the cat roams, it runs the chance of being killed by cars, dogs and crazies. Horrible, but then cats are little killers themselves. I have had outdoor cats but now have an indoor cat (various reasons he has to stay inside) and this spring he snuck out and followed me in to the garden when I put the bin out and in a 2 minute window caught and killed a baby blackbird.

I have cats, I also have dogs, 2 of them love cats, 1 will chase ours if they run & would almost certainly kill a strange cat in her own garden if she caught it.

I would be very upset if my dog did kill a cat, but unfortunately the 'right to roam' comes with all the risks associated with it & in this day & age it's just too dangerous

You can't train a lurcher out of chasing a small animal, it's not like a spaniel where they hunt under human guidance, they're very independent hunters and it's harder to break them off a certain species like you can do with a dog who hunts under handler direction.
OP your neighbour is being a nut, let your dog out as normal and if it manages to catch the cat hope she's not in when it happens. Cats are quite stupid with lurchers because they don't realise how fast and agile sighthounds are and take risks that they could get out of with normal dogs.

I have cats. I adore my cats. They roam free.
If they were attacked by your dog in your garden, I would hold NO blame on you whatsoever.
Your neighbour is being ridiculous.
However, if your dog got out of your garden and hurt my cat, then that's slightly different. But again, it's animal instinct and I think I would try take facts into account and before wading in with threats.

This. We have sighthounds and the prey drive isn’t something you can just train out of them, ours our never off lead outside of secure areas. They’ll easily out run/chase down a cat given the chance, as far as they’re concerned their sole purpose in life is catching and killing small furries. The local cats aren’t stupid enough to come into our garden, I’d feel terrible if one was killed but would not blame the dog at all for doing what it was bred to do in its own secure territory. As for attacking a human entering the garden, the human is more likely to bite a sighthound than the other way round, they’re not like other aggressive types, unless you’re small and furry they’re not interested in hurting you, that only happens when they attempt to turn your living room into a racetrack and you suffer collision injuries 🤣

And this.
It's very unlikely her cat will end up injured by your dog.
More likely your dog will have a nervous breakdown with frustration from the cat winding it up

By law, you would be responsible if the dog hurt the cat. Pretty much definitely. However, agreed that it’s unlikely the dog will catch the cat and the cat will likely work out this isn’t safe for it any more. If you can add extra height to the barrier/fill in any holes (ours found three separate invisible ones the first time she was let out) I would definitely do that though. It’ll be traumatic for you and the cat owner as well as horrific for the cat if they do sneak in and get caught, and you really don’t want a big dog with a prey drive getting a taste for cats.

Exactly. The poster with the spaniel saying their dog doesn't go in the garden without them and they were able to train the prey drive out of their dog 🙄spaniels are (newsflash) very different to lurchers, you only need to look at dogs when out and about, spaniels check in loads, run back and forth as if attached by an invisible thread to their owners, and are often very clingy, whereas lurchers scan the horizon and when off lead run in an independent manner. I've taught mine to check in, as long as the treats last she will check in repeatedly perfectly, and as soon as they're gone she's back to intensely scanning the horizon 😅the prey drive simply can't be trained out of her.

@Unluckycat1 Oh god I hear you about the treats, you have to train lurchers like a bird of prey and just feed them for coming back 😄

Not really the point of the thread, but your neighbour sounds crap. You've warned her of an issue and her immediate response is not 'right how can we sort this (do more to keep the animals apart) but 'I'll sue you'...this isn't going to keep the cat safe or do anything to negate the trauma if it did get caught.

I'd be talking to her again about how you can both make changes (eg increasing height of fence) to stop the cat getting in. If she doesn't want to know, then I'd suggest she's had fair warning and there is no more to be done (this is not a legal view just my opinion)