To be annoyed at my parents!

[MarthaFaukas]

I'll try and keep this short.
My partner and I live in London. We have one child and are being crippled by child care costs! We pay £1800 pcm, as well as rent.
We've decided we want to move out of London to see if we can buy a place. Getting a mortgage is another thing entirely but for arguments sake, we need a bigger deposit.

I would never dare ask my parents for money, however, they have previously said they'd help with house deposit or childcare where they can.

Speaking to my mum about money worries today, she says there is "no money." This is what annoys me. There clearly IS money as they go gallivanting off on expensive holidays, sometimes paying £1000 per night on hotel rooms. They often buy designer clothes and bags (also updwards of £1000, a bag strap I had to collect for them cost £400 alone!)
Theyve also previously offered to pay for flights for my sister's wedding (over £3000 for the three of us), which is why we agreed we could come, but now there is "no money" for that either.
AIBU to be annoyed about them saying this?

I'm feeling like I'll have to take on a weekend job. I already work full time in the NHS and home ownership just seems so out of reach. Also feel like I'm playing second fiddle to a bag 🎒

They are entitled to spend their money as they please. You might not like to hear that, but they’re also entitled to change their mind 🤷🏻‍♀️ I think you ABU to rely on parents support as an adult.

OP I had to move out of London too when my DD14 was 2. I'm a lone parent and I managed it.

Moved out to Oxfordshire where it's commuting distance if I needed to be in London. Rent was a lot lower and I had the deposit within 4 years.

I had a live in nanny which was 1400 a month.

Just get on with it and stop whining.
Once your parents see you taking action maybe they will contribute but maybe they won't but you aren't going to fix the issue by staying in London acting like an entitled teenager.

gosh, those big grren eyes of envy are writ large here...
Gallavanting
£1k pn hotel rooms
Designer clothes

Don't expect anything from anyone. It will make your life less stressful

And I'd look for cheaper childcare; have you a Norland nanny or something?

it's their money, not yours

Some MN are absolutely nuts.
The OP is NOT asking if her parents are selfish etc for NOT giving her the money. Parents have offered to help child care / deposit/flights, which is very kind of them. BUT to then rescind their offer with the reasoning of 'there's no money' while still spending £1000 on a bag is a cop out.
If they don't want to give their money that's fine, but to lie about it, make offers you know you're not going to follow through with, or worse change your mind after your child's family have committed to an event costing £1000s is just shitty in my opinion.

OP you are not entitled to their money but I know that's NOT what you're asking! You are not BU to be disappointed in their behaviour x

PP - BTW she is still her parents child regardless of how.old she is!!

They are making a poor investment decision. My parents decided retirement was golf and cruises. We struggled, but survived, in London with public sector incomes. Cheap French gite holidays, hand me down cars from in-laws, house decoration 30+years old, me effectively working two jobs. Nothing from them, not even a present for the kids. (And sadly defined contribution rather than a final salary pension to look forward to.)

My mother spent the final decade of her life living with Alzheimer’s. I had to give up my job to help care for her. She was lucky that I decided I wanted to give a good example to my children, guided by my views on the way she had treated my grandparents. (My aunt did everything.)

I remember my anger when I started sorting out her finances. There was a lot of money. It would not have cost her anything to have helped us out. It would have made a big difference at a point when we were run ragged.

Oddly it was her loss in the end. She could have had real pleasure from her grandchildren, but she did not know them well enough to have an emotional connection that would have cut through her dementia.

And our children. Their upbringing means that they are naturally frugal. We will help give them a start. So we bought their first phones as teenagers but expected them, with the savings from not having a contract, to buy replacements. We bought DDs very small first car, but six years on and faced with a longer commute she gets the second, in part using the savings she has made from not leasing. She works in a low cost part of the UK so it makes sense for us to help with a deposit to allow her to pay mortgage rather than rent. We would help if something unexpected came up health wise or similar, but otherwise we don’t expect her to need further hand outs. We have done our bit.

I chose ‘YANBU’ because they have said about the money to you before. If they hadn’t, it’s a different story.

I used to think that parents didn't owe kids money. However, my kids are getting older, and I can see that even if they work really hard and have great incomes they are going to really struggle to afford things like a house deposit without help. I am doing my best to be in a position to help.

It's a bit of a stretch to say they made a "promise"

Thanks for your insights.
Just to clarify, I don't feel I am entitled to any of their money. The part that is questionable to me is that they offered it, now say there's none, which is at odds with their behaviour. I'd rather they say they'd rather spent it on xyz/need it/rescind their offer, than lie and say there's none.

I'm sorry you're struggling. Quite a lot of people have moved to the West Midlands from London, due to lower rent and plenty of jobs. I'd move next year, and transfer to another NHS hospital. I would cancel going to your sisters wedding. Explain that you can't afford it. Mum initially offered to pay for the flight, but she can't do that anymore. Your sister would expect some people not to go, as it's a flight to another country. With lower rent, you'll be able to save up for a house deposit. Childcare is so expensive, I remember being shocked at the bills. I ended up going part time, because of it. 3 long days were perfect for me, and I got to spend more time with the baby.

OP I got it - it’s the bare faced lie that there’s no money when there is money, it’s just they don’t want to say they’ve changed their minds.

It’s the offer of help which makes you seem grabby when you then ask for it- it’s unreasonable to expect a house deposit from your parents, but it’s not unreasonable to expect it if your parents say “we’ll give you a house deposit”.

Most parents don’t say “we’ll pay for xy and z for you” unless they really will. Later claiming the reason they are now not doing is they have no money, when they clearly do have money to spend, is going to grate more than an honest conversation about them changing their minds.

What she said.
100%.

I’m Gen X so have it easier than the generations after me and harder than the baby boomers who (let’s face it) have benefitted (and still do) disproportionately.

The thought of skunking thousands on handbags and hotels while my daughter visibly struggled is just unthinkable. I’m always surprised on here by the sheer number who think retirees have some sort of divine right to disproportionate greater wealth.

Parents don't have to help, but if I had the money I would rather help my children than buy a designer bag. My parents have never helped. It is their choice, but it does affect my feelings towards them as they are not poor. And it can be hard hearing them talk about how much money they have.

In the same way it's easy to say
"I'll drive you to the airport" knowing full well a taxi is already booked and they won't say yes to your offer
Or
"sorry it's so hard. If I could I'd have the baby for us" when you are a biological male.

its easy to make empty promises and write checks you think you'll never have to cash.

You get to feel you a good benevolent person without doing anyway or giving anything.

Personally my family would never behave like this but my DHs would. It's a matter of perspective. She on some.level "believes" their is none as she needs it all and she might be right.

It's hard but it's unfortunately the facts.
As a qualified nurse could you look into eithe private nursing or qualifications that might allow you to work as an aesthetic practitioner this would boost income and make things easier.

Ps. Totally feel your pain on childcare in 12m our bill will be £3.5k pm 😱😱😱😱😱

I guess there is 'none' in their mind. 'None after we've spent it on what we want to spend it on.' Which is kind of fine.

I think as your dc get older, your mind set about money does change. So you don't begrudge your baby the £2k a month you spend on them. But when that's been going on 15 years amd the recipient is utterly ungrateful and simply grunts at you (a timely rant as I watch my teenage tip £3 of raspberries in to her mouth) you kind of start looking forward to when tou get to spend the money you earn on yourself. I've kind of already decided I'm gonna be frivolous, I deserve it.

"My kids have had every last penny over the last 21 years - they won’t get more when they leave home."

Unthinkable, really, that this is how you feel about your own kids. I speak as someone who's migrated half way across the world, for higher education, worked numerous jobs and made it to Professor within her 30s. None of that - absolutely none of that - would have been possible without my parents' continued generosity of support.

This support - interestingly enough - not only didn't teach me not to stand on my own two feet (as I say, making Prof in your 30s, as a woman of colour first gen migrant in the UK isn't exactly easy peasy) - it complemented, supported and enhanced my efforts in every way.

Even today, with one retired and the other still working, despite our many protests, they prioritise their grandchildren (not just gifts, but future proofing) because they cannot contribute childcare from halfway across the world.

It is that mindset of theirs, that I try to instill in my kids, where they are taught to work their hardest, with the full knowledge of what my dad always told/tells me "Go off, fly, but if things go wrong - I am one phone call away, with support".

That any other mindset is possible, is beyond me.

Looks like she means there’s no money for you, not that there’s no money at all. Better to know now she’s not going to help out in case you’d been holding off waiting for her.

Now you can make plans to move away somewhere cheaper and start putting some money away instead of waiting and hoping for help that never comes.

Unless you’re super close and she’d be devastated don’t worry about your sisters wedding just send her a nice gift and best wishes and put the money you’d have spent getting your deposit started.

not quite the same but my sister recently asked to borrow £70,000 to buy out her soon to be ex husband. She is a full time carer for her disabled adult child living on benefits to so this loan would have essentially been a gift. My response to her was 'we don't have that kind of money to lend'.

We actually do have that much saved but we haven't saved it to lend or give it to family but to facilitate a comfortable retirement for ourselves which will include gallivanting around the world and nice handbags should either of us want them.

My sister found other ways of raising the money she needed without us having to give her money earmarked for ourselves. I'm sure you will cope independently too.

Does your sister live in another country & is getting married there?

Could you afford for just you to go?

I would be annoyed at being promised & it not happening.

3 grand for flights for a wedding though.

Impossible for many I would have thought!

Maybe there is no money. Maybe their financial situation has changed or maybe they've realised that they can't actually afford what they've been offering and spending. You never know for sure what's really going on in people's lives.

@hattie43 I agree with your first point but why is it a scandal that childcare costs that much? Looking after a child is a job, an extremely important one at that because you're looking after and forming a human being. If anything, logically it should be more expensive, considering the responsibilities and costs involved.

@Chocolatefrenzy a house is worth what people are willing to pay. The main reason why housing costs are now expensive is what you implied yourself - many more women entering and then staying the workforce after marriage and kids means couples started using the woman's salary in addition to the man's to buy the house they wanted, so of course house prices will logically rise and often no longer be easily afforded by the man's salary alone. Plus banks agreeing to lend couples more than they should, so facilitating people getting in the habit of paying for houses they can't actually easily afford.

On top of that, a big reason people don't think about is family breakdown means many more houses are needed. E.g. for every divorce or family separation, the housing needs are normally doubled because now a parent/ex partner needs to find accommodation for themselves, instead if them all staying in one house. Plus of course immigration - everyone who comes in the country naturally needs to be housed!

HoppingPavlova,that was us. I get sick of hearing how easy us "boomers" had it, and still do! We started life,in a couple of rooms,then bought a caravan on a loan. Not a fancy park home,a freezing cold/boiling metal box. I was nursing I did nights to DH days and visa versa. This wasn't the plan,first H tried to kill me,ran up high debt,scattered, house and contents repossessed! Spent over a year in a house marked for demolition. Housed,met 2nd DH, baby, then he was made redundant 5 times in 8 years.... first time a month after buying a house. I always had 3 jobs, I did double shifts, hospital, nursing agency, and private. Shared a car,he was waiting on the grass verge in the morning, after my night shift. Small NHS pension 12 years. One son with rapid cycle bipolar, another unable to work,severe depression,DD made redundant from Wilko, benefits messed up, have just paid some of her bills. Last holiday 15 years ago. Oh, I did buy myself a handbag last month,it was my birthday,£5, oh and a really nice puffer jacket £9, from a charity shop. No fancy inheritance either,late F , remarried 6 weeks before he died!

I know loads of people will say the don't owe you anything. But I absolutely can't imagine having a lot of money and not helping my family. I'm generous with Tim, money and effort though and I'm very aware not everyone is!

The rescinding of the offer is the big one for me though. Personally I'd withdraw from the relationship a bit. They've shown where their values are. I have family who behave a little like this and it's hard.

Not with the spending, but live in a 700k house have plenty of liquid cash and very different opportunities due to house prices but act like there's no money. All I can control is my relationship with them and what I learn from it. Which is why I'm generous. Sorry op.

@Nannyfannybanny No one is suggesting hardship and bad luck didn't exist. However, for a large enough proportion of people, home ownership and retirement was plausible, if you were lucky and made sacrifices. For young people today, no matter how much they sacrifice, home ownership is just completely out of reach, unless they have help.