Page 9 | Do you think the new £38K income visa threshold for UK spouse visas is fair?

zendeveloper · 2023-12-04T19:32:32+00:00

It is set at the same level as for work visas. Feels completely crazy to me, but then, I am also an immigrant (although the changes don't affect me), so probably too sensitive to the topic. Would be interesting to hear MN opinion.

greengreengrass25 · 04/12/2023 21:37

Echobelly · 04/12/2023 21:27

It's ridiculous - they need to look at where we have skills shortages, they need to pay people in shortage fields better and/or make it easier to live on a lower income (eg more social housing). Not demanding only higher paid immigrants!

Yes if they had done that in the first place etc

tunainatin · 04/12/2023 21:38

I can only really think of this from a personal perspective. I fell in love and got married to someone abroad. Decided to move to the UK when we started a family, for various personal reasons. I can't remember the ins and outs as it was so long ago but I was a student at the time, our joint income was very low. It took ages and cost a lot but eventually he got a British passport, we never had to be apart. I find it hard to get my head around the fact that this just wouldn't be possible anymore. I could have the person I love with me, or I could have my country, but not both 😥

Dorisbonson · 04/12/2023 21:39

zendeveloper · 04/12/2023 21:27

Finally, here's the solution - let's all become data scientists! It is true that you don't formally need a degree, but you still need postgraduate level maths for most of well paid positions in data science.

Strangely, what is the optimal solution for every individual, isn't always the optimal solution for the society which needs teachers, nurses and even, shock horror, bin collectors to exist. Also known as "prisoners dilemma", data scientists are quite familiar with the concept.

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I know data scientists without maths degrees picking up over £100k a year so don't think that's true.

Do you understand the points I made? Or do you want to attempt to reject the overall argument by picking holes (wrongly in your example) in example points without addressing the substance and overall idea?

Based on what you say it seems you reject the idea that people can earn more than 38k in the UK without having a degree. That position seems pretty weak to me.

EasternStandard · 04/12/2023 21:39

Numa · 04/12/2023 21:31

My husband and I are here on my health and care visa. I earn just around the new threshold - although that won't affect me anyway - but now wondering if when we need to renew our visas he won't be able to stay?! Ridiculous considering that my trust can't recruit local staff to the many many vacancies that we have, within my Dept as well as many others.

Is he allowed to work? Not sure what the rules are

WhenLoveIsDone · 04/12/2023 21:39

It's monstrous.

honoldbrist · 04/12/2023 21:39

lkwhjis · 04/12/2023 19:52

Low skilled mass immigration is a ponzu scheme that’s gone far too far. It’s like Bernie Madoff on steroids.

since 1997, we have been importing cheap labour who bring their families with them. So then you need more immigrants to come in for jobs to support the previous round of low skilled migrants. More people need more taxes to pay for their needs. And on this merry go around goes. And during this time over 5 millions indingenous have decided that no longer need to work when they can just live for free.

All this is happening while the number of net contributor shrinks so fewer and fewer people paying for more and more. Half of the people in this country takes more from the system than it pays in. This upside down pyramid built on top of an ever shrinking number of people who actually contribute more than they take is starting to get really unstable. Welcome to UK, a country knocking on the door to enter the third world. Not offensive, just true.

I wish this were not true.

cakeorwine · 04/12/2023 21:39

There's also a regional variation in salaries - parts of the UK have lower salaries than other areas, so what might be considered a high salary in 1 part of the UK is lower in other areas - so areas that don't have high salaries won't be able to attract skilled workers as other areas as they can't offer jobs to compete at that salary level.

StillWantingADog · 04/12/2023 21:41

It means that even if people do earn that much, their spouses (I.e.) wives won’t. So they won’t come at all.

not good for the tech and science communities

pretty disastrous for the health and care sectors who are struggling to recruit as it is.

beanontoast · 04/12/2023 21:42

Isn't the average salary about 33-36k at the moment? So it's not much higher than that, seems fine to me. People saying they'll 'never earn more than 27k' or something seems nuts.

MrsRachelDanvers · 04/12/2023 21:43

Love all those people talking about net contributors earning over 38k so piss off those who don’t. So goodbye all those farm workers, chefs, waiters, butchers, nursery nurses and young teachers. Many people don’t earn 38k because they’re young and starting out. Just the type of people we need-healthy and happy to work. And the irony of only letting in foreigners who are competing with Brits for higher wage jobs.

Tracker1234 · 04/12/2023 21:44

Slightly off topic but how are the Vietnamese nail bars which are everywhere managing to keep going. There is one large salon near us that is full of nail technicians doing nails much cheaper than the average salon.

wordler · 04/12/2023 21:45

Wakeywake · 04/12/2023 21:36

@wordler What makes you think you can't use your husband's pension to meet the requirements? Of course you can. It's guaranteed income, it's like the easiest way to get the spousal visa. You also don't need to be separated for 6 months as long as you've got a job offer in the UK and you're currently earning enough abroad. Have you even looked at the requirements?

I haven't looked at the new requirements but I thought previously it all had to the the UK spouse.

Okay - that makes me feel a bit better about our options.

It's still a horrible system for women who have gone part-time etc to care for family and have not been the main breadwinner.

It's also a very very expensive process to get to permanent residency.

The ability to have a joint financial sponsor would solve all those issues - I don't understand why the UK government won't consider that. My Dad could sponsor us tomorrow if that was possible.

Numa · 04/12/2023 21:46

Yes, he is allowed to work and does work (but not in a short skilled sector and not earning above the threshold so he would not be able to get a skilled worker visa of his own).

CormorantStrikesBack · 04/12/2023 21:47

Tracker1234 · 04/12/2023 21:44

Slightly off topic but how are the Vietnamese nail bars which are everywhere managing to keep going. There is one large salon near us that is full of nail technicians doing nails much cheaper than the average salon.

Money laundering

cakeorwine · 04/12/2023 21:47

Lolaandbehold · 04/12/2023 20:48

I think it's absolutely fair. Anecdotally, I've heard that anyone with children that isn't a higher or top rate tax payer is a net beneficiary of the state, when NHS, education, children's allowance etc are all taken into account. So if an immigrant on £25k a year gets a visa for his non working spouse and 3 kids, the family will ultimately cost the country money.

The more pressing issue is, perhaps, who is going to do all of these low paying jobs now that we've booted out the Europeans.

It's all a bit too little too late from the Conservatives though. Talk about clutching at straws. ~Not all~ voters are completely stupid.

I get really pissed off with comments like this.

Who keeps this country running?
Who provides essential services like NHS, teaching, public health, infrastructure, food production, water supply?

People on poor pay keep this country going. You may say that they "cost this country money" but without such people , this country couldn't make money. Food wouldn't get made, people wouldn't get an education,. people couldn't get hospital treatment.

If people on low wages decided to stop working en masse, this country would soon notice. And realise the importance of people and not say "Gosh, you poor person, You are not a net contributor. We would be better off and richer without you".

If all people who were seen as "not net contributors" stopped working, then you would change your mind about that statement.

EwwSprouts · 04/12/2023 21:48

Tracker1234 · 04/12/2023 21:44

Slightly off topic but how are the Vietnamese nail bars which are everywhere managing to keep going. There is one large salon near us that is full of nail technicians doing nails much cheaper than the average salon.

They may well have been trafficked. If it's too cheap there is a reason.

Tacotortoise · 04/12/2023 21:49

CormorantStrikesBack · 04/12/2023 21:47

Money laundering

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Or modern day slavery. Or indentured servitude.

Original poster

zendeveloper · 04/12/2023 21:51

Dorisbonson · 04/12/2023 21:39

I know data scientists without maths degrees picking up over £100k a year so don't think that's true.

Do you understand the points I made? Or do you want to attempt to reject the overall argument by picking holes (wrongly in your example) in example points without addressing the substance and overall idea?

Based on what you say it seems you reject the idea that people can earn more than 38k in the UK without having a degree. That position seems pretty weak to me.

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I understand the points you made, that it is possible for every individual person, when you zoom and look just at them, to craft their career path in a way that they could earn more than £38K without a degree, or special talent. I don't think anyone (who has ever hired a plumber or an electrician anyway) has argued with that.

However, you don't seem to get my point, that it is impossible for everyone in the society to follow these pathways at the same time. The country just needs to have N hundred thousand nurses to function, most of them are not paid £38K, and they cannot all decide to become data scientists, bricklayers or project managers tomorrow, because the system will crumble.

And I also know data scientists without a formal degree, even hired one myself recently. The guy is fluent in mathematics at a PhD level though, and spent an equivalent amount of time on research and education, just not formally.

OP posts:

CormorantStrikesBack · 04/12/2023 21:51

Tacotortoise · 04/12/2023 21:49

Or modern day slavery. Or indentured servitude.

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Yes, probably a combination. The workers have all paid a fortune to come here, and will be paying board and lodging in awful conditions. Which is probably the main business rather than the nails. Then the business can also be used as a front to clean the money they get through trafficking and any other dodgy ways such as drug dealing. No idea how more aren’t closed down. And the car washing places.

madamovaries · 04/12/2023 21:51

Completely unfair - junior doctors don’t make that much! Also we get so many nurses, carers, midwives etc from overseas. Hate the language around all this too
also keep thinking that we are stuffing the next generation. God forbid you go abroad and fall in love with someone from another country

Tracker1234 · 04/12/2023 21:51

So why aren’t these places raided every week? They are everywhere. Surely they are a quick fix.

SharSharBinks · 04/12/2023 21:52

knit1pearl2 · 04/12/2023 20:22

It's bonkers, STEM PhD graduates and doctors don't earn that much.

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Surely doctors earn more? Aside from junior doctors.

Papyrophile · 04/12/2023 21:52

Usually, there's a single person threshold that one person has to be above, but the second (trailing spouse) needs much less because a two person household has one set of overheads for accommodation. For example, a single person needs about £28K in guaranteed income to live in Spain legally without a job, but a couple need about £34k. Two state pensions, at £11k each, plus two occcupational pensions should suffice. If you have a UK property to sell to buy in Spain where property values are lower, then you may well qualify. You won't be living high on the hog, but you can afford to live, and eat, and your heating costs are likely to be reduced too.

wordler · 04/12/2023 21:52

Wakeywake · 04/12/2023 21:36

@wordler What makes you think you can't use your husband's pension to meet the requirements? Of course you can. It's guaranteed income, it's like the easiest way to get the spousal visa. You also don't need to be separated for 6 months as long as you've got a job offer in the UK and you're currently earning enough abroad. Have you even looked at the requirements?

But re not having to be separated - if we wanted to come back right now we would have to be. Even if I had a job offer in the UK, I don't satisfy the current requirements to be earning enough abroad.

So if I needed to go back to the UK now, I'd have to get a job offer in the UK for over the threshold, move back, work for six months to get enough pay slips to use, and then apply for the spousal visa.

The US visa process is brutal in the delays and length of time it takes but at least there's a joint sponsor option for spousal visas.

EmpressSoleil · 04/12/2023 21:53

When you’re talking about spouses though, that’s a choice people make. I’ve been through it all with a foreign spouse, the time, the £££, the stress. We later split up for other reasons, although the stress didn’t help, but never again would I even date someone who didn’t have British citizenship. Yes in an ideal world we should be free to love and marry (and live with) who we choose but that’s not the case. Other countries also have requirements that a foreign spouse has to meet, or rules they have to stick to. It is complicated and stressful regardless.

I don’t really think any of it is “fair” but it’s where we are. Life isn’t fair. My advice to anyone is don’t date a foreigner. Simply because of the issues of where you can/will live. And people do have a choice in that. Yes there are going to be people already together caught out by it but that would happen any time something like this was brought in.