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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Do you think the new £38K income visa threshold for UK spouse visas is fair?

936 replies

zendeveloper · 04/12/2023 19:32

It is set at the same level as for work visas.

Feels completely crazy to me, but then, I am also an immigrant (although the changes don't affect me), so probably too sensitive to the topic. Would be interesting to hear MN opinion.

OP posts:
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MumblesParty · 04/12/2023 21:12

zendeveloper · 04/12/2023 21:06

The exact place? St John's and Elizabeth's hospital, I think. Why?

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Good luck!

Papyrophile · 04/12/2023 21:13

I hope the government are also removing the rule that companies can bring in migrant labour and pay them 20% less than the going rate a UK native employee would expect. But otherwise, I agree that the threshold should be set at a level that doesn't merit claiming benefit except education for children for a set period post arrival.

Original poster
zendeveloper · 04/12/2023 21:15

dogvcat · 04/12/2023 21:09

What’s outrageous? Do you think that we should just accept everyone, irrespective of whether they are going to be able to support themselves?

If you think things are bad in the U.K. at the moment, think how much worse it would get if everyone was allowed to just come to the U.K. irrespect of their financial situation? Do you really think our already struggling economy, should have to support these people? Now, that would be outrageous!

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But it is not just "everyone". It is someone who is in a close and long-term relationship with one of your own citizens, special enough that they married and all this nonsense about in joy and sorrow etc.

OP posts:
Oliotya · 04/12/2023 21:16

Papyrophile · 04/12/2023 21:13

I hope the government are also removing the rule that companies can bring in migrant labour and pay them 20% less than the going rate a UK native employee would expect. But otherwise, I agree that the threshold should be set at a level that doesn't merit claiming benefit except education for children for a set period post arrival.

Edited

They are. And no recourse to public funds is already a thing.

ithinkmyheadiscavingin · 04/12/2023 21:18

It's disgusting, frankly.

sallypam · 04/12/2023 21:18

I think it's an appropriate level to be able to support a dependant in London where I am. May not need to be as high in other parts of the UK, I don't know.

DH is an immigrant but I'm glad to say he got here through a skilled work visa (we met when he had.moved to London) and now has British citizenship. Our marriage had no bearing on his immigration or citizenship, and I wouldn't have been able to meet even the old financial thresholds.

I do have relatives who are from the UK and have struggled to find work here and it's sometimes felt unfair that they were not getting jobs while other workers were recruited from overseas. So they will benefit from less competition for jobs.

BansheeofInisherin · 04/12/2023 21:18

I really feel for you and others in your situation @HumanBurrito

GlasgowGal82 · 04/12/2023 21:19

I don't think many people on this thread realise what a spouses visa is for - it means that if you are a UK citizen you cannot marry someone from abroad and settle with them in the UK unless you earn at least £38K. It think it is too high and will unfairly discriminate against young people early in their careers and public sector workers.

On a personal note, it means that my best friend who is an experienced nurse won't be able to return to live in the UK with her American husband who is an experienced science teacher, despite the fact they could both make a really useful contribution to the UK economy and fill jobs that are hard to recruit to in the public sector. I think it's wrong to calculate it on the basis that the UK citizen needs to be able to support the spouse, because how many relationships these days have only one person working?

Nynaeva · 04/12/2023 21:19

Yet again it shows how utterly out of touch with reality the current government is. I mean, I know for them £38k is probably what their fourth annual holiday costs, but for many people they're not going to be earning that. They're evidently thinking this will get all those feckless native British benefits munchers back to work in care homes and hospitals without understanding how strenuous a lot of that work is.

Given the demographics of our old, I'll country that now nobody at all with any sense is going to want to come to, one conclusion is that they genuinely want the old and the sick and the poor to just do the decent thing and kick the bucket. And no, I don't think Starmer is the answer, by a long shot. I wish every day I was still young enough to emigrate.

Dorisbonson · 04/12/2023 21:21

CalistoNoSolo · 04/12/2023 20:08

Yes, totally agree. I can't imagine how shit it must be for so many uk citizens who are trapped in poverty brought about by rubbish schooling and zero social mobility.

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Rubbish. If you want to earn more money the following roles don't need degrees and can be accessible with on the job training:

  • Plumber/Heating Engineer (£400 a day in South East equivalent to £95,000 self employed, employed pays less)
  • Bricklayer/Plasterer/Carpenter (£200 or equivalent to about £50k a year self employed if experienced)
  • Data Scientists (£200 to £750 a day dependant on seniority with £300 a day accessible within 2 years)
  • Programmer (£150 a day possible in a year and 50k a year within 3-4 years, starting circa 20-25k)
  • Project Manager Junior (£200 a day, equivalent to £50k ish a year, possible within a few years)
  • Senior project management roles are commonly over £100k
  • Accountant qualified, average salary is circa 50k and a lot more in some parts of the country and with more experience, 3 years training on the job.
There are many many other roles which don't require degrees which pay well. No excuses. Plenty of free courses with flexible remote access - all it takes is the desire to do it. You don't need to be a genius to work in those roles, just willing to learn.

Fed up of hearing jealous people moaning about other people earning high salaries.

You can only blame a crappy school for the start you have not where you finish.

ImNotAsThinkAsYouDrunkIAm · 04/12/2023 21:25

zendeveloper · 04/12/2023 21:05

And still, thankfully did not need to touch the fantastic NHS in the last decade or so, despite dutifully paying the surcharge, as a good immigrant. Even went back to my home country for the childbirth.

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Oh well, I’m sure you’re right, we should absolutely be basing our country’s fiscal policies on your experience.

wordler · 04/12/2023 21:26

Well, it means I can't move back to the UK with my spouse now.

I've been in the USA for 18 years and was thinking about moving back when DH retires but this visa application will not take into account husband's retirement income - only mine, and I don't have anywhere near enough (for various reasons - freelance career, SAHM etc) but we'd have more than enough to live on with his - his retirement income is way above the threshold.

When the income threshold was 18,600 I thought we could do it with savings - because you need 3x the amount to apply using that route. I can save 60,000 but not 114,000.

In my late 50s I could also imagine managing to get a job above the 18,600 level but not easily above the new one. And even that route would mean being apart for about six months to meet the rules.

When emigrating the US there are also income requirements for spousal visas but you can use a joint sponsor if the US spouse doesn't meet the level.

I'd have plenty of options for a joint sponsor if the UK would allow that.

Wakeywake · 04/12/2023 21:26

I think it's fair. It's less than 2 minimum wages. People who don't earn that much can supplement with savings to get over the threshold. If they don't have sufficient savings, how do they expect to live until the foreign spouse finds a job, without access to benefits?

Echobelly · 04/12/2023 21:27

It's ridiculous - they need to look at where we have skills shortages, they need to pay people in shortage fields better and/or make it easier to live on a lower income (eg more social housing). Not demanding only higher paid immigrants!

Original poster
zendeveloper · 04/12/2023 21:27

Dorisbonson · 04/12/2023 21:21

Rubbish. If you want to earn more money the following roles don't need degrees and can be accessible with on the job training:

  • Plumber/Heating Engineer (£400 a day in South East equivalent to £95,000 self employed, employed pays less)
  • Bricklayer/Plasterer/Carpenter (£200 or equivalent to about £50k a year self employed if experienced)
  • Data Scientists (£200 to £750 a day dependant on seniority with £300 a day accessible within 2 years)
  • Programmer (£150 a day possible in a year and 50k a year within 3-4 years, starting circa 20-25k)
  • Project Manager Junior (£200 a day, equivalent to £50k ish a year, possible within a few years)
  • Senior project management roles are commonly over £100k
  • Accountant qualified, average salary is circa 50k and a lot more in some parts of the country and with more experience, 3 years training on the job.
There are many many other roles which don't require degrees which pay well. No excuses. Plenty of free courses with flexible remote access - all it takes is the desire to do it. You don't need to be a genius to work in those roles, just willing to learn.

Fed up of hearing jealous people moaning about other people earning high salaries.

You can only blame a crappy school for the start you have not where you finish.

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Finally, here's the solution - let's all become data scientists! It is true that you don't formally need a degree, but you still need postgraduate level maths for most of well paid positions in data science.

Strangely, what is the optimal solution for every individual, isn't always the optimal solution for the society which needs teachers, nurses and even, shock horror, bin collectors to exist. Also known as "prisoners dilemma", data scientists are quite familiar with the concept.

OP posts:
stomachameleon · 04/12/2023 21:27

@greengreengrass25 Malta and italy.

MrsCarson · 04/12/2023 21:27

It is way too high. The immigrants who all work where I do earn £12.50 an hour, same as the local people who work for us, they are in high demand but won't find the same work as carers earning £35,000 That's more than a band 5 nurse which is where the NHS starts all new nurses no matter how long ago you trained.

Simonjt · 04/12/2023 21:29

nationallampoons · 04/12/2023 20:06

I think it's very fair. I also think spousal visas should be restricted and be cancelled if they divorced within 10 years

I've seen too many people burned

This would be the absolute dream scenario for abusers, as their victims only escape would be deportation and being completely seperated from their children.

I will be forever horrified by how many people are so keen to keep victims of abuse with their abusers.

CormorantStrikesBack · 04/12/2023 21:30

zendeveloper · 04/12/2023 20:53

I am paying less than £1K for private medical insurance for three people per year, to a company that makes profits out of it.

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But that will cover you for not very much. Not emergency care. Not ICU stays.

It will cover a bit of investigation and an operation if necessary .

I doubt it covers ongoing, chronic stuff such as diabetes, epilepsy, etc.

Rewis · 04/12/2023 21:31

I've been looking into visas to join my British BF. It is starting to look like Ireland is the best bet for us. Getting a skilled work visa seems to be difficult to get. I understand they have to make sure my bf (husband if decide to go this route) is able to support me but you can do that with under £38k especially when I would defo be working (assuming someone wants to hire me) and since I'd have to pay my own insurance amend wouldn't be able to get benefits I'm sure we'd be able to survive with less.

Has there been issues with spouse visas being given and them needing public funds to survive?

Numa · 04/12/2023 21:31

My husband and I are here on my health and care visa. I earn just around the new threshold - although that won't affect me anyway - but now wondering if when we need to renew our visas he won't be able to stay?! Ridiculous considering that my trust can't recruit local staff to the many many vacancies that we have, within my Dept as well as many others.

wordler · 04/12/2023 21:34

Wakeywake · 04/12/2023 21:26

I think it's fair. It's less than 2 minimum wages. People who don't earn that much can supplement with savings to get over the threshold. If they don't have sufficient savings, how do they expect to live until the foreign spouse finds a job, without access to benefits?

Well in my case we would live on my husband's retirement income which is more than enough to support us. But because you aren't allowed to take into account the foreign spouse's income on the application it means we are stuck in the USA.

Well, he is - I suppose I could leave him there and come back on my own. Our daughter could split her time between the two of us because she is dual.

If my Dad needs my help in his old age I will have to choose between my husband and my parent.

CormorantStrikesBack · 04/12/2023 21:35

SpacePatch · 04/12/2023 21:09

@CormorantStrikesBack How old is he? If under 35 he could apply for the Youth Mobility Visa.

He’s 26 so yes, that’s possible thanks. Just looked and he could stay here for two years on that….not sure what happens after that. 🤷‍♀️. What if they have a baby during these two years and then he gets deported. I just despair. We had Brexit and she couldn’t go and work in Europe and now this.

ACynicalDad · 04/12/2023 21:36

Whilst I do think that immigrants should usually be net contributors, I certainly wasn't earning that when I got married, and most people are young when they marry, how will they ever come back here and build a life. That's too high, although I do think it's right that there is a level set I'm not sure it should be much above the national living wage for marriage, we shouldn't tear families apart, the level can be higher for other jobs.

Wakeywake · 04/12/2023 21:36

@wordler What makes you think you can't use your husband's pension to meet the requirements? Of course you can. It's guaranteed income, it's like the easiest way to get the spousal visa. You also don't need to be separated for 6 months as long as you've got a job offer in the UK and you're currently earning enough abroad. Have you even looked at the requirements?