Do you think the new £38K income visa threshold for UK spouse visas is fair?

[zendeveloper]

It is set at the same level as for work visas.

Feels completely crazy to me, but then, I am also an immigrant (although the changes don't affect me), so probably too sensitive to the topic. Would be interesting to hear MN opinion.

For those of you who are talking about doctors and nurses not being able to bring family members - the exact wording of the statement is 'care workers' cannot bring their family members. That is very specific wording with a specific meaning. He did not say 'all Health and Care worker visas' or 'those in the medical profession'. I am fully expecting, when the law is fleshed out, that it will only be those sponsored in SOC codes 6145 and 6146 (care worker and senior care worker) that will not be permitted to bring family members. It will not apply to doctors, nurses and other professions.

The BBC are reporting it wrong by saying health and care workers.

I am not saying this is right, I think it's appalling that there will be one specific job title in the whole immigration system that can't bring their family with them, and I would expect a challenge under Human Rights law, but just clarifying for others.

We don't.

If we stopped the 5 million unemployed from having an equivalent/better lifestyle on benefits to those working... we wouldn't need to import labour.

I don't think the Government will ever figure this out, mind.

We are an island. And because of that we have many impossibilities.

Yes, I am with you. Of course, there's a debate to be had about what jobs are needed for the economy, what is the level of fair pay for the job, etc. There can be very valid arguments on both sides here.

But to say that, effectively, 80% of nurses and 60% of teachers are just not good enough to live with their forriner loved one in their native country, and need to fuck off to Canada, is just... unbelievable really.

(All numbers based on very vague calculations, and Canada just because it was mentioned upthread)

No, no, no, way too high. 38k is quite a high salary in many sectors.

Both the spousal threshold and the personal threshold are too high. I've just been discussing this with a friend who is affected - she earns much less than the new threshold, so is a risk of not getting a visa if she changes jobs. Her boyfriend earns slightly more than the spousal threshold, so maybe they could get married - but if he earned a little less, then that wouldn't be an option either.

You don't need 38k to support 2 people, plenty of people live on less than that.

50000 nursing vacancies. It's hardly going to help is it? They are deranged!

Ridiculous high , the essential of another adult come to less than £4K a year. The majority of costs fir one adult, housing a car , internet, house ins etc are fixed. Clothes 1/4 council tax, food, extra gas/lecki/water are around £300 a month. Obviously that's the bare minimum but all that matters is that they are supported. People should be able to choose the basics only for love.

We have to recruit from abroad because the pay and working conditions are driving our own healthcare staff out.

It has a great deal more to do with our ageing population than it has to do with the immigration of mostly young and relatively healthy migrants (who have to pay a surcharge to cover the cost of accessing the NHS in any case). Plus of course, we are losing lots of our home grown nurses and doctors to better terms and conditions overseas.

Anyone earning less than £38k, migrant or not, is being supported by net contributor taxpayers. Basically we are importing vast swathes of people on low wages and then paying for them. It’s just bonkers.

Can I ask how? What is being paid for by other tax payers if you earn under £38k?

I can understand all the reasons why people might want to come here (despite the MN narrative that the UK is a vile racist rainy cold shithole), and obviously people don’t want to be separated from their families once that have emigrated.

But this is down to basic maths. In order to support people who can’t work, or who do minimum wage jobs, we need enough people paying enough tax. If we are struggling to support the British nationals who need financial assistance, then we can’t justify supporting people from other countries as well.

I’m sure many other countries have similar, if not stricter, rules.

I think it's unfair, it's too high.

There's an aspect of throwing a dead cat on the table here. Over and over.

Lots, in the country, getting hot under the collar about immigration. Papers/some TV channels 'telling' readers how to feel.

If there weren't vacancies to be filled many just wouldn't come here.

So what real issues are being masked by our immigration indignation?

NHS funding, vacancies. Where are the 40 new hospitals?

Social care funding?

Councils on the point of bankruptcy - barely due to 13 years of austerity.

SEN funding. etc etc

I find it ironic that the vast majority of those working in the civil service, public services etc would not earn enough to meet this threshold including the staff processing these visas! Yet the government think this is a reasonable threshold. So out of touch it's unbelievable.

I do understand where he's coming from- but this is just going to cause uproar. When immigrants come to England and are earning £38k+, English people will scream "Why did they get the good jobs?" "Why is an immigrant earning more than me?" etc. Immigrants are damned if they do, damned if they don't.

I think ensuring immigrants aren't on benefits, are supported to get into good careers etc should be the priority. A cap like £20k would make more sense, as that's a much more attainable entry level full time salary.

If they're on a decent enough salary like £38k, maybe a contribution to the NHS/raised taxes would be appropriate.

But why are we not putting the emphasis on these types of careers in schools, many are put off by the bad press the NHS gets. The system here is terrible for helping guide young people. Many don’t realise the importance of agriculture. Where my partner is from the majority of teenagers spend time harvesting from June - September just like they used to here in the schools holidays, hence the 6 weeks. We ship in Eastern European labour purely for this purpose. Fruit and vegetable picking is tiring work but when you have done it as a summer job as a teenager it doesn’t seem so bad. Why are we not pumping money into educating our own and providing purpose for young people, this could have been fixed by now but it isn’t. Caring again I agree, the nurses who looked after my dad in palliative care couldn’t have been better but again were all non-British. Why are we not training our own people to take these jobs? We need a better vocational and future planning system for the young people in the UK.

So a family on the joint income on £76K (£38 x 2) is supported by taxpayers? Sounds quite off the mark, to be honest, but obviously, I didn't do the detailed calculations.

No because we need them to come! Or perhaps we should pay care workers, nurses, agricultural workers etc far more!!!

People willing to do the work those living here won't should be welcomed with open arms

I agree with you, even though many won't.

The peril of the country continuing to run an unsustainable financial model, is scary.

If both earn over £38k then I assume both in the married couple can get visas?

If on the visa list

It is high and it will be difficult for many Brits to bring a spouse to the U.K. with required salary being that high. That said someone I know brought over someone she met on Facebook, he sponged off her for 2yrs, had a mental health breakdown and 10wks in hospital, then she threw him out and he’s been working without paying taxes for the last year, cash in hand. So would it have been better if she wasn’t able to sponsor his visa, yes. Definitely

I agree

It's not sustainable

To anyone now panicking I would marry immediately, the legislation will take time to pass, could be defeated even but to be safe!

We're talking about spouse visas here, so British citizens.

Immigrants on spouse/partner visas already have no recourse to public funds (meaning benefits) while they are under immigration control (a minimum of five years). They have to have extra earnings for each child that comes in under this route. In addition they pay the NHS fee for every year of their visa. And when they eventually qualify for settlement, they still have to reach the earnings threshold PLUS extra earnings for each child.

Did I miss anything off your list?