Do you think the new £38K income visa threshold for UK spouse visas is fair?

[zendeveloper]

It is set at the same level as for work visas.

Feels completely crazy to me, but then, I am also an immigrant (although the changes don't affect me), so probably too sensitive to the topic. Would be interesting to hear MN opinion.

Same question, how higher would you consider "fair"?

Of course they can. What's stopping them? They will just need to live in Canada.

Its very high. Where we live to sponsor a spouse you need to have £600 a month left after paying your rent or mortgage, even if every penny of that goes on food, bills etc, thats okay, as long as you have £600 a month left after direct housing costs. If you live in an expensive property you can also rent it out and live somewhere cheaper, as long as it has at least one private room, a bathroom and kitchenette, so a house share really.

I don't think anyone should get a penny in UC / housing benefit / any in work benefits until they've paid in for five years. There should be a higher threshold id bringing a spouse and higher if children too because of NHS / school costs.

It seems high, but something has to be done.
In my job I regularly see immigrants (who admittedly work very hard) with minimum wage jobs, being joined by spouses, parents and parents-in-law who speak not one single word of English, make seemingly no effort to learn the language, and never work. It’s just not sustainable.

It's ridiculous and pretty sure no one asked for this.

Well it’s a massive blow for the care sector and NHS. Yes they may be exempt from the earning threshold but they won’t be able to bring their spouses and kids. Basically they won’t come then will they? It’s a global market, most countries need healthcare workers, so they will go to a more welcoming Country, and who could blame them?
Dh is Dr and they absolutely rely on foreign nurses and Drs, it’s becoming impossible to recruit from Uk, the staff just don’t exist. The foreign nurses and Drs nearly all have spouses /kids.

Didn't realise we had all the care staff, agricultural workers, nurses, junior doctors, teachers, physiotherapists, support workers, theatre practitioners, gas engineers, lab technicians, HCP disability assessors for PIP/DLA...that we need.

It might be slightly more fair (though I think it's still way too high) it the earnings of the non-British spouse were taken into account.

I've always earned about doubly what (British) DH does; sometimes more than double. But under this system when I came off my sponsored work visa, my salary would have been completely ignored (and Australia would have got us instead.)

Lots of people can get job offers before arrival or are already here.

I've seen loads of academics and other people in highly skilled jobs today learning that when their current visa expires, their own earnings will count for nothing so even if they did manage to scrape over the income threshold it would all be down to what their partners are earning - and often those partners are in similar sorts of roles.

To have the spousal system set up along the idea that only the sponsoring spouse will pay is archaic.

Surely the root cause issue here is our low wage economy. It should be possible for two people who are working full time in essential jobs (care work etc) to support themselves without relying on state benefits. The fact that a significant percentage of working people haven't got a hope in hell of achieving this is the real problem.

Maybe they don’t want to live in Canada? Not only are there are health issues but she’s half way through her RIBA qualifications to becoming an architect. Qualifications valid in this country not in Canada. Until today it would have made more sense for him to come here. Of course he would have got a job if allowed to work….but afaik it’s her salary which counts for the visa. Or can he get a job here and then get a visa?

It is practically impossible to bring parents and parents in law from a country that is subject to immigration control under the current legislation. There are literally just a handful of successful cases per year, the threshold to meet is very high. People you meet in such high numbers must have a different story, not family visa immigration route.

We need none of these professions. We are happy for Canada, Australia, NZ etc. to attract any talented people looking for opportunities in English-speaking nations.

I know quite a few EU migrants going home after 10+ years here. They are unhappy with the education primary/secondary age, the emphasis on importance of education in state schools, high rental/property prices and the NHS infrastructure; unable to get appointments, wait lists, quality of care - many go home for treatment. Many saw the UK as the golden ticket especially during the recession but even they realise now how it is to live in a massively overpopulated country. One of my parents is an immigrant (refugee from Europe as a baby) and my partner is also an EU immigrant. Once we pay off our mortgage we’re hoping to head out too. I believe we need to draw the line somewhere with immigration. I know healthcare recruitment will suffer etc but the only solution shouldn’t be shipping in migrants from other countries.

Another attempt to undermine the NHS and privatise it by stealth. Not the main aim of the £38k policy but a "handy" benefit of it.

I would be very interested to hear about retention rates for migrants entering the care system or signing up for degrees. I suspect quite low, which isn't good value for the taxpayer.

He would have to get a work visa for his employment to count. His income doesn't count towards the requirement for a spouse visa.

Does he not have any qualifications? What were they planning to do for money?

They don't. Any visa has a 'no access to public funds' restriction (albeit in your example some NI contribution related payments such as statutory maternity pay are permitted as they are not considered public funds). And anyone obtaining a visa has to pay, upfront, and NHS surcharge of £624 per year of the visa, which is being raised to £1,035 per year.

I'm currently working on a visa application for a family of 5. Their payments for the Immigration Health Surcharge (which is before the higher fee has come in) is around £13,000. All of which has to be paid upfront.

It's bonkers, STEM PhD graduates and doctors don't earn that much.

The current rules just don't allow this. Is it possible this a made up story?

@lkwhjis your post is bang on.

I think this debate isn't about race and immigration - it's about greedy employers and organisations wanting to recruit foreign workers on low wages and treat them badly with the "carrot" of permanent residency.

Take academia and universities.

The new threshold is above that of a postdoc salary (that's a role after a PhD).

Not surprisingly, lots of white liberal senior academics complaining about this, it's all "so cruel and heartless" and they all are ardently looking for photographs of a non-white female scientist to Tweet, to show how cruel the system is. "What a loss to British science!".

These are the same senior academics who basically shove scientists from India and China into 70 hour weeks of processing chemicals to produce results for them (whilst the white middle class academics go to social events and networking events).

They basically get indentured servants as they can threaten to take their visas away if they don't do as they are told.

They don't give a fuck about science or knowledge or non-white people. They care about their cheap labour drying up. Their social group will be entirely comprised of white faces (even in a very international environment).

Carer is one of THE most important jobs in society. Again, why not raise the salary and conditions? What are the profits of nursing home bosses?

Who is profiting from the cheap labour coming over?

I think some wealthy people are "playing both sides of the equation" - encouraging desperate people to immigrate, suggest they move to areas with elevated racial tension (away from wealthy white people) profit from them, then enjoy them being criticised.

Universities have offices devoted to recruiting foreign students (and suggest they can work afterwards). It's ALL profit. They sell Masters courses with huge fees (going to the university).

The world is levelling up.

Many countries have a burgeoning middle class now, and work opportunities galore. People can move cities to the capital or neighbouring countries for a change of scene (and most people do - the countries with the most refugees are Uganda, Pakistan, and Turkey last I heard).

People say Suella Braverman is cruel and racist (and of course like to remind everyone due to her dark skin colour she's "not and will never actually be a proper British person" despite being born here with a Cambridge degree).

I think it's incredibly cruel and racist to entice workers, encourage them with a "lottery ticket" of permanent residency, then exploit them and get them to run the gauntlet of racism and uncertainty over their living status, whilst some greedy university bosses and senior organisations wipe their grubby greedy hands.

It’s smoke and mirrors. Of course they have recourse to public funds. If they are bringing children with them, how is their schooling paid for?

Anyone earning less than £38k, migrant or not, is being supported by net contributor taxpayers. Basically we are importing vast swathes of people on low wages and then paying for them. It’s just bonkers.

I think there should be a swap scheme for partners so if someone wants to bring their partner from let's say Canada then they can only come if someone from the UK emigrates to Canada.

The problem with the money limit is that UK people increasingly can't afford to do the jobs either if they don't want to be homeless or a low standard of living.

People say bring back the Erasmus scheme but if young people go abroad and meet someone then they will never be able to live at home again