Do you think the new £38K income visa threshold for UK spouse visas is fair?

[zendeveloper]

It is set at the same level as for work visas.

Feels completely crazy to me, but then, I am also an immigrant (although the changes don't affect me), so probably too sensitive to the topic. Would be interesting to hear MN opinion.

You are saying you don't want anyone "compelled" to look after the vulnerable, in context of why British people can't do it, that means you don't think they will do a good a job as the immigrant ones.

They are financially compelled to do a job they may not have considered or aspired to if they want to live in the UK, many will be good at it, some not so good, it is the same for people lying about on the dole smoking weed, they might not have considered working three days at the local care home but if their money gets cut so they can`t afford their weed any more they might consider it? If they are too dodgy to be trusted around cash tins and medication they can get out and cut the grass or dig holes for some nice flowers that the residents can look at, or they could do a number on the piano in the communal area to keep people entertained, all better than being a taxpayer sucking waste of space?

The post I was responding to was suggesting cutting benefits as a method of compelling people into care work. I don't think forcing people into care work as a last resort is a good idea.
Improving pay and conditions so that people actively choose a career in care is far more likely to bring people suited to the job into the sector.

Gardening and piano playing? Tell me you haven't a clue about the state of the care sector without telling me you haven't a clue about the state of the care sector.

Yes I think it’s fair.

We are going in circles here.

I am so sad that you and thousands like you are made to feel like this, in my experience most of us don't see immigration as the biggest problem in this country even though that's what the government and the media want us to believe, unfortunately empty barrels make the most noise, please don't pay attention to them

I ve worked before in Social Enterprise, i can tell you that many people who are unemployed are also unemployable, variety of reasons, often MH related, some with physical health issues, most have not worked for many years.

They would require a great deal of effort to get to a state where you'd want them looking after your Gran or disabled son.

You'd want them working in a non care role for many months first, with extensive support & who have we got going spare to provide this? they'd need training up too

I really don't think a high motivated person, willing to leave their own country to seek work, can be compared to someone smoking weed & unemployed for years.

In reality it's unsustainable. We can't keep importing people that are a net drain on the country's finances, when they are in such terrible shape.

In some sectors there is a shortage of workers - care work, for example.

So, let's say a carer gets paid 20k. Would you rather let people come to this country and do that job, with a subsidy from the taxpayer, or leave the job empty and the elderly struggling?

Employers will have to pay a living wage that allows people to pay for their own housing costs rather than import cheap labour from abroad.

This would be nice, but it's just unrealistic for some jobs. Take care work, again, or childcare. For these workers to be paid a decent salary, with no further government subsidy than there is already, care homes and childcare would go from very expensive to completely unaffordable.

I have so many questions.

But I'll start with some stats and numbers.

The average cost of living in the UK for a couple is £2500-3000 pm according to Kanan.co. (£30,000 to £36,000).

The UK spouse visa application fee in 2023 is £1,048 if your application is made inside the UK and £1,846 if your application is made outside the UK. Other costs include Immigration Healthcare Surcharge £624 for each year and biometric fee £19.20.

It is estimated that around 35,000 marriages or civil partnerships involving at least one non EEA national take place each year and that 4,000-10,000 applications a year to the Home Office are based on a sham marriage/CP. (UK Parliament)

32% of all foreign-born population living in UK had been here for at least 5 years. (UK Data Service)

45% of children of foreign-born parents live in poverty (UK Data Service)

Questions:

• How are the people making lower wages affording to go abroad and meet people in the first place?

• How do these foreign spouses afford to visit family?

-How long do people know each other (in real life not online) to foreign partners before bringing them here?

-How much do people know about the complications of having children with a foreign spouse if that spouse decides they don't want to stay in the UK?

-How often does abuse and coercive control happen in relationships once the spouse is here (which is known to be under-reported by victims)?

-How many of the people that come end up on benefits? Or working under the table? (Which is part of the reason for abolishing the Tier 1 highly skilled (general) visa scheme in 2009.

-How many overstayers are in the UK who originally entered on a spouse visa?

My view: There is no perfect immigration system anywhere. It's complicated. The UK has seen significant increases in visa and yet since 2012 removals have dropped significantly which means we have a huge population of overstyers. We have a lot of sham marriages. I often wondering (having been down this road) how many people really think through the challenges and consequences of bringing a foreign spouse to the UK.

Seems
bonkers as we really really need more workers at junior level or even lower paid roles

What does an nhs nurse earn!

Importing cheap workers, with their families, is a very short term solution that is just kicking the can further down the road for our children and grand-children to have to deal with. This seems like a sensible measure to start slowly weaning us off imported labour, rather than simply waiting until the pyramid scheme collapses.

Given the story on the BBC today about the elderly lady who died partly because her care workers could not speak good enough English, it would seem that cheap imported care workers are not even solving the problem anyway.

It's fairly straightforward to understand. The government (any government, regardless of badge colour) do not want to import low wage labour, and are finally deciding not to subsidise cheap skate employers, because I can't see Labour rowing back from the Tories' recent decision. It costs the host country too much. I returned from the USA after a divorce in 1986 and took a 50% paycut in the process. But I earned over £18k in 1986, and by the time I went freelance in 1990, I was on £27k. Bad luck can happen to anyone, whatever shape it may take. It's the old Gary Player proverb: the harder I work, the luckier I get.

More reckons from people who don't understand what the thread is about. This thread is about British citizens' right to family life and the draconian and inhumane policies that tear apart British families.

In reality it's unsustainable. We can't keep importing people that are a net drain on the country's finances, when they are in such terrible shape.

If only there was a source of immigration that significantly helped to plug the gaps in the labour market while also being an overall net contributor to the economy, in large part because of proximity to their home nations.

Oh wait we did have that, but we chose this path instead. Brexit really is the gift that keeps on giving.

I'm not entirely clear how reducing the (already relatively small) number of spouse visas for the partners of British citizens is going to save us from our criminal lack of investment in skills or our rather enormous demographic and public health catastrophe, and might not even make it worse by forcing some of those skilled-but-not-raking-it-in-yet British citizens offshore, but sure. Why not.

On its own it won’t of course, but it all adds up. The popular consensus here is that you shouldn’t be having children unless you can afford it, so why should getting married be any different?

It's also ignored that a huge number of over 55's no longer in employment have taken early retirement to help out with childcare of their grandchildren or caring for elderly relatives, most people I know in this situation aren't living the high life choosing not to work

They do. I am a nurse in the NHS, and many of my coleagues come from overseas. All of them bought their families with them when they came over here.

I agree.

i am British and married to a Spanish man (we met at school in the UK). We moved to spain with our small children who are British also. This change would make it impossible for us to move back to the UK ever. I am a qualified nurse and couldn’t ever earn this salary in the NHS.

There will be countless families like ours who met and married EU citizens (and had families) when there was freedom of movement. At least when you are going through the immigration process within the EU you can stay together in the country and not be separated.

So nurses don't earn that amount in the UK? Nurse Practitioners? Physicians Assistants?
In the US basic RN are paid a lower scale than Nurse Practitioners but at almost twice that.

Not true. And I saved this for exactly this ridiculous post.

Anyone with the right to remain in the UK ( aka permanent resident aka indefinite leave to remain) and some people with limited leave to remain and similar categories- ARE NOT British citizens, however, they too - including - pay attention- our golden British citizens, are captured by this rule (old and new).

Hence it say's 'spouse' and not 'spouse of a British citizen'. Shows people shouting from the rooftop about immigration have no clue what they are talking about! But I knew that already!😀

The problem is that immigrants and students are bringing ever larger numbers of dependents with them. While they are dependents, it is putting a greater and greater strain on our social support costs.

You can bring over your spouse and children. That's it. Not extended family, parents etc.