Page 25 | Do you think the new £38K income visa threshold for UK spouse visas is fair?

zendeveloper · 2023-12-04T19:32:32+00:00

It is set at the same level as for work visas. Feels completely crazy to me, but then, I am also an immigrant (although the changes don't affect me), so probably too sensitive to the topic. Would be interesting to hear MN opinion.

CrashyTime · 05/12/2023 18:47

Oliotya · 05/12/2023 18:44

No, I think you can fuck off with your crash agenda on a thread where it is entirely irrelevant. Surprised you aren't too busy buying all the mega cheap houses to be on mumsnet by now. LOL.

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Immigration and rents/house prices are very interlinked, not as much as cheap debt and house prices but still very connected.

Oliotya · 05/12/2023 18:48

CrashyTime · 05/12/2023 18:45

The wages will need to go up and people in the UK on benefits who are fit and healthy will need to be "compelled" to pick up these jobs, their benefits will need to be cut until they feel the urge to work for a living.

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This has been addressed on a similar thread. Do you really want people who have been "compelled" to work looking after vulnerable people?

Notonthestairs · 05/12/2023 18:52

There are already 165,000 vacancies in social care. We've cut funding to local authorities that have a statutory duty to provide care.
There doesn't seem to be a social care workforce plan in place and we have an ageing population.

Absolute dereliction in duty towards vulnerable people.

BraveToaster · 05/12/2023 18:53

I think it's very unfair. This post is concerning UK spousal visas (so spouses of UK citizens, not spouses of immigrants) so I'll address that. I originally came to the UK on a student visa, met my ex-husband, moved back to my home country (USA) and did the long distance thing for awhile until we eventually decided to get married. We decided to live in the UK because my ex was in the UK Armed Forces. Under the new rules he would not be able to bring me to the UK because at the time I think his wage was £30-£35k. I was the much higher earner between us and found a job easily when I came to the UK. (For those wondering, you do lose your visa when you get divorced. Thankfully I am a high earner and was able to switch to a work visa instead. And your visa needs to be renewed after 2.5 and 5 years and they ask for proof of marriage each time).

The other thing to note is they only count the income of the UK citizen, and it must be earned in the UK. A few years ago I read an article by an Australian journalist who lived in Australia with his British wife and children. She wanted to move home to be closer to her family but as she was a stay at home mum she didn't have much recent work history so was unlikely to find a job that met the income threshold. She would also need to leave her family in Australia to return to the UK, find a job, and work for six months in order to submit the visa application. She was essentially exiled from her own country due to visa requirements. I imagine this will happen a lot more with the new rules.

This isn't the article I was thinking of but a similar situation:

How new UK spouse visa rules turned me into an Englishman in exile | Richard Fabb

Richard Fabb: Changes to UK visas for foreign spouses are barring thousands of citizens from going home. My choice? Exile in Australia, or breaking up my family

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jul/09/uk-australia-spouse-visa

CozmicBee · 05/12/2023 18:54

With the age of the Internet and global social networks it is very easy for 2 people from different countries to fall in love and want to spend their lives with each other. It seems that you can only do that if you have money though. It's really sad.

CrashyTime · 05/12/2023 18:54

Oliotya · 05/12/2023 18:48

This has been addressed on a similar thread. Do you really want people who have been "compelled" to work looking after vulnerable people?

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Depends on the people, most work-shy people are probably honest and capable enough with a bit of training, and if their benefits have been cut they won`t want to lose the job by being dishonest or negligent will they?

CrashyTime · 05/12/2023 18:56

CozmicBee · 05/12/2023 18:54

With the age of the Internet and global social networks it is very easy for 2 people from different countries to fall in love and want to spend their lives with each other. It seems that you can only do that if you have money though. It's really sad.

Tragic, Taxpayer isn`t very romantic though unfortunately, they just want the open door shut and the Tory clown show know they have to address this to get elected again.

CrashyTime · 05/12/2023 18:58

Notonthestairs · 05/12/2023 18:52

There are already 165,000 vacancies in social care. We've cut funding to local authorities that have a statutory duty to provide care.
There doesn't seem to be a social care workforce plan in place and we have an ageing population.

Absolute dereliction in duty towards vulnerable people.

They use agency workers, that is why more councils will eventually go bust, that and dabbling in commercial property like they were Buffet`s Apprentice or something.

fetchacloth · 05/12/2023 18:59

anon666 · 05/12/2023 18:17

I guess in effect what they're doing is setting an income threshold that represents what you need to live on without requiring a taxpayer subsidy to live here.

The factors that led to this state of affairs are miserable, namely that this is a rentier economy, with housing and energy costs being so high that the state has to subsidise every person on minimum wage. It's perverse.

Ironically, despite this, there are still lots of advantages here compared to other countries, including a very open lightly regulated market economy and an open job market.

However, each family on average wages costs more money to support than they pay in taxes, because of the free health service, free education, very different to most places that are similarly open.

In reality it's unsustainable. We can't keep importing people that are a net drain on the country's finances, when they are in such terrible shape. Housing shortages alone mean there just isn't the capacity to house people.

Employers will have to pay a living wage that allows people to pay for their own housing costs rather than import cheap labour from abroad. It's all a terrible imbalance anyway, with a lot of jobs needing the subsidy of council housing to make them viable.

Sad state of affairs but this country is now apparently 20% poorer than it was 15 years ago, a legacy of the financial crash followed by austerity then Brexit then COVID. We need a new government with some better ideas.

This gets the best post on the thread award and explains very clearly why we need to have an income threshold.

WhichIsItWendy · 05/12/2023 19:04

Oliotya · 05/12/2023 18:43

But there are already additional income requirements for foreign children. Any British children aren't subject to migration law. The foreign spouse and children aren't entitled to claim any benefits.
It's ethically uncomfortable? Yes it is, and I don't think unethical migration policy is ok just because other places are the same or worse.

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There are lots of things that are ethically ideal but unrealistic. I'm sorry, but to ignore negative effects is just ridiculous.

Give me an adult who can survive independently on £18k in the south east and I'll eat my words. £38k is high, but so is the cost of living. If people want to move abroad, they need to meet the criteria. That's the case everywhere in the world.

CormorantStrikesBack · 05/12/2023 19:05

Sad state of affairs but this country is now apparently 20% poorer than it was 15 years ago, a legacy of the financial crash followed by austerity then Brexit then COVID. We need a new government with some better ideas.

I do completely agree with this. Obviously Brexit and Covid have been shit shows for the economy but the thinking now is that actually austerity was the worst thing. The govt should have taken advantage of cheap interest rates at the time to borrow and invest in the country and stimulate the economy into growth. But it fucked up and did the opposite, the economy tanked even worse and now the government are having to borrow at a time of high interest rates. Which long term will also fuck the economy up. Not sure what the answer is but I suspect it’s not a Tory government. They have completely crucified the economy never mind all the other shit.

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 05/12/2023 19:06

This has been addressed on a similar thread. Do you really want people who have been "compelled" to work looking after vulnerable people?

This is a really strange statement.

Do you really think that the all Filipino, Eastern European and Nigerian careworkers who we currenty rely on do their job because they absolutely adore looking after vulnerable people? Do you really think that growing up all they dreamed about was a care home in Crawley full of people who need constant care?

They are the ones "compelled", as you put it, to do it because the money is better that what they can get in their home countries. Not because it's their childhood dream or vocation in life.

If they can do it, then so can the homegrown employment inactive.

WhichIsItWendy · 05/12/2023 19:09

CrashyTime · 05/12/2023 18:56

Tragic, Taxpayer isn`t very romantic though unfortunately, they just want the open door shut and the Tory clown show know they have to address this to get elected again.

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Exactly. Of course people fall in love. But love doesn't conquer all like in the films. If you can't practically live together, whether that's down to policy or finance, then people need to be realistic and either end their relationship, stay long distance, or find a country that will enable it.

That's life. Sorry. Adults forego things they want all the time for practical reasons. If you have a child with someone without permission to remain, then youve done so in the knowledge that it may not work out.

Weegie91 · 05/12/2023 19:09

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 05/12/2023 19:06

This has been addressed on a similar thread. Do you really want people who have been "compelled" to work looking after vulnerable people?

This is a really strange statement.

Do you really think that the all Filipino, Eastern European and Nigerian careworkers who we currenty rely on do their job because they absolutely adore looking after vulnerable people? Do you really think that growing up all they dreamed about was a care home in Crawley full of people who need constant care?

They are the ones "compelled", as you put it, to do it because the money is better that what they can get in their home countries. Not because it's their childhood dream or vocation in life.

If they can do it, then so can the homegrown employment inactive.

So why aren't Brits doing these jobs then?

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 05/12/2023 19:10

Weegie91 · 05/12/2023 19:09

So why aren't Brits doing these jobs then?

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Because they can afford not to.

OhmygodDont · 05/12/2023 19:11

Yeah I mean I’d rather shit in my own hands and clap than wipe an adults bum for £11 an hour.

Tbh I’d probably actually throw up anyway so be pretty bad at the job. Can’t even be sick myself without it making me sick. Even those long snots make me nearly puke.

ThistleTits · 05/12/2023 19:14

@lkwhjis Where did you get the 5 million figure from?

Weegie91 · 05/12/2023 19:17

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 05/12/2023 19:10

Because they can afford not to.

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Oh, I thought Immigrants were sending the country broke? Or is that not the case?

Oliotya · 05/12/2023 19:19

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 05/12/2023 19:06

This has been addressed on a similar thread. Do you really want people who have been "compelled" to work looking after vulnerable people?

This is a really strange statement.

Do you really think that the all Filipino, Eastern European and Nigerian careworkers who we currenty rely on do their job because they absolutely adore looking after vulnerable people? Do you really think that growing up all they dreamed about was a care home in Crawley full of people who need constant care?

They are the ones "compelled", as you put it, to do it because the money is better that what they can get in their home countries. Not because it's their childhood dream or vocation in life.

If they can do it, then so can the homegrown employment inactive.

I don't think it's a strange statement at all.

It's not as if all fillipinos, eastern Europeans or Nigerians are care workers - most aren't. And I'm sure some of the ones that are probably shouldn't be. I know a number of desperately poor people who wouldn't (or certainly shouldn't be allowed to) do care work for all the money in the world, because they are horrible/lazy people. Same as some Brits.

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 05/12/2023 19:19

Weegie91 · 05/12/2023 19:17

Oh, I thought Immigrants were sending the country broke? Or is that not the case?

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Not sure what your point is.

I cannot explain it to you in even simpler terms, sorry you struggle with it.

CrashyTime · 05/12/2023 19:20

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 05/12/2023 19:10

Because they can afford not to.

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Not any more, this is timed to coincide with a recession (and election of course) I think, and the PTB know that people will take any job they can get to meet the bills (specifically the much more pricey mortgage debt) people will work in care home or social care settings to pay their bills, hoping to return to their main job when "things get better".

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 05/12/2023 19:22

It's not as if all fillipinos, eastern Europeans or Nigerians are care workers - most aren't. And I'm sure some of the ones that are probably shouldn't be. I know a number of desperately poor people who wouldn't (or certainly shouldn't be allowed to) do care work for all the money in the world, because they are horrible/lazy people. Same as some Brits.

OK, so insert you preferred country of provenance care workers and tell me why they are better suited to wiping bums, rather then the "compelled" British variety?

Weegie91 · 05/12/2023 19:23

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 05/12/2023 19:19

Not sure what your point is.

I cannot explain it to you in even simpler terms, sorry you struggle with it.

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😂

Oliotya · 05/12/2023 19:24

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 05/12/2023 19:22

It's not as if all fillipinos, eastern Europeans or Nigerians are care workers - most aren't. And I'm sure some of the ones that are probably shouldn't be. I know a number of desperately poor people who wouldn't (or certainly shouldn't be allowed to) do care work for all the money in the world, because they are horrible/lazy people. Same as some Brits.

OK, so insert you preferred country of provenance care workers and tell me why they are better suited to wiping bums, rather then the "compelled" British variety?

I didn't say they were?

ChardonnaysBeastlyCat · 05/12/2023 19:24

CrashyTime · 05/12/2023 19:20

Not any more, this is timed to coincide with a recession (and election of course) I think, and the PTB know that people will take any job they can get to meet the bills (specifically the much more pricey mortgage debt) people will work in care home or social care settings to pay their bills, hoping to return to their main job when "things get better".

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Let's see then.