Do you think the new £38K income visa threshold for UK spouse visas is fair?

[zendeveloper]

It is set at the same level as for work visas.

Feels completely crazy to me, but then, I am also an immigrant (although the changes don't affect me), so probably too sensitive to the topic. Would be interesting to hear MN opinion.

High net migration is the symptom, not the cause.

Yes I’m ok with it, lots of those will be foreign students as well I’m sure. And lots will be qualified people with jobs that we have shortages in, they will pay tax into our Country. Ok by me 🤷‍♀️

High numbers didn’t annoy me as much as it did others. I noticed the outrage on here, and it’s quite a pro immigration site I’d say. O/s students paying higher tertiary fees is a benefit to us imo

If people react, which they did, then policies will come next

I think 750k is a bit high, if there’s room to take it down then it’ll reduce strain on infrastructure etc. I don’t think we can have that number each year in any case

It is quite easily changed just by thresholds etc

Plus imo things will change in the next few years as use of AI increases

Another route is that he gets a job with a firm in Canada that has offices in the UK and transfers over.

I'm so glad I got my spouse visa in 2012 (and I was the one who met the income threshold, not my DH). The new system is insane.

British families forced into emigrating so they can stay with foreign wife/mum is one way of tackling net migration. So if British dad and three British kids are de facto deported by impossible and ever-changing criteria so they can stay with foreign mum, that's -4 to the population. Win!!!

Who cares if these are English-speaking citizens leaving the country their forebears have lived in for hundreds of years, who now won't be around to care for the English set of grandparents, who will therefore add to the already at breaking point care system in a few years. We kept out one foreigner. Score!!

Some people on this thread have been horrible. It's exactly these kind of attitudes that make me never want to go back to the UK again. Caring for my PILs will 100% fall to my SIL.

I could go on a skills visa, but I have seen colleagues burnt really badly by ever increasingly complex rules and expense.

Also, either my DH, myself or both of us are an immigrant wherever we end up. DD luckily has dual citizenship.

£45-50k in London at least. After tax very few people can live in London for less than that without requiring benefits. No point in having more immigration if they aren't net contributors and need more help themselves. Defeats the whole point imo.

£17k is not even minimum wage.

How does this work? When someone gets a spouse visa they get a 2.5 year visa and it's based only on the UK partners earnings. Even if they have savings, a pension, independent income, the Home Office is only interested in what the UK partner earns.

So they have moved over with the UK partner earning say £25k. They get a 2.5 year visa then they have to reapply. What happens at the next visa point after 2.5 years - does the UK partner suddenly now have to be earning £38k because the goalposts have changed after they've been living together for a couple of years?!
Meanwhile the foreign partners income is still ignored?

It's an extremely high jump from £18,600 to £38k.

Please remember that we're talking about the spouses and children of British people. I don't think it's right to reduce the value of that to an arbitrary figure. Besides, they are ineligible for any benefits anyway. No recourse to public funds.

Yeah, I mean, what the point of care workers and nurses etc if they aren't net contributors?

I see some discussion of a cap on migration which is really the Conservatives floating the idea pre-election. If you think this is unfair, a cap is in principle much worse, because you either get your application in at the right time to be included, or if you could cap applications per month, leaving a random element as to who qualifies for visas dependent who else applies in that month.

Incidentally I often hear people putting of UK citizenship applications; the direction of travel is pretty clear. I would assume that can get harder and the rules changed there too. Do not put it off. Get it done, because ILR could also be changed as a status.

That's not really the right question - as a PP said, the issue is what's caused such a rapid increase in net migration since 2019, and what levers would affect it.

Students and their dependents make up 43% of the increase. That was a deliberate government strategy to make immigration rules more liberal for dependents and post-study work to attract foreign students. The income requirement does not impact this group - the government announced changes to these rules in the summer.

Humanitarian visas are next at about 30% of the increase, which is almost solely Ukraine and Hong Kong. These are unlikely to be permanent features of our immigration system.

Work visas (including dependents) are about 24% of the increase, with the main driver being health and social care (exempt from the new income requirement, though they will not be prevented from bringing dependents). We need to look at why the demand for these workers is so high - it's a poorly paid area that is increasingly unattractive to domestic workers, and demand is going through the roof as our population becomes increasingly unhealthy and increasingly elderly. If we want to sort out immigration, we need to sort out our health. The health impact of bad diets alone is going to explode in the next decade - reducing the available workforce and increasing demand for health and social care.

The family visa numbers have actually decreased since 2019 and make up less than 10% of not just the increase but the whole net migration figures. Spouses and family visas aren't driving the increase in net migration - this policy is just cruel, anti-family window dressing to try to distract from bad headlines.

All figures courtesy of Migration Observatory

Well it was the right question in that it’s what I was interested in getting an answer to

At some point a net migration figure prompts a reaction and going by recent figures 750k has done that

Beyond that any country that has a high use of care homes will be struggling more in next few decades so that’s us. We’ll have to figure out if we want cheaper care labour or pay more for care or do it ourselves

If people think net migration is too high but don’t want this policy how would you reduce it?

Thanks for this response. Great summary for those who have formed opinions but haven't taken the time to understand the ins and outs of migration.

It is a great summary @JassyRadlett.

I think this is not fair as it’s such a big jump as well but then dh and I are immigrants and this has been the case for foreign nationals on a work visa for years, even though the foreign nationals had no recourse to public funds so no matter what they were earning, that’s what they will have to support their family with anyway.
I remember when DH had his first work visa, he had to be earning 26k for it and to have a dependent. By the time we were applying for indefinite leave to remain some 6 years ago, it had jumped to 36k and overtime earnings don’t count. We’re thankfully British now but the way the laws are changed is a lot. It’s m ridiculous that people who are working for the nhs as nurses, ot, physios, even junior doctors who are much needed can’t bring their spouses and family in here from overseas if needed.

I'm ancient, I did project 2000. No tuition fees, lived rent free in Central London for 3 years on nurse training and also, in the mid 90s, got £600 a month to luce on plus travel expenses. Term time only placements so plenty of capacity to earn extra without burning out. Perfect experience for me, lived in a tower block inside Charing Cross Hospital grounds, 2 minutes from Hammersmith Broadway, 2 seconds from a bus stop. Amazing how many Thatcher inventions now look positively inspired.

I think in order to offer family visas, you need to have an infrastructure. I have an Iraqi colleague who just completed his asylum and finally got his British passport and is now booking his flight back to Baghdad to get a filling!

I think it's high but I also think effort should be made to encourage people to go into these jobs desperate for workers. I know a number of people who could get a job but they don't fancy shifts / care work / manual work so don't.

We are talking about British children, who are not going to be able to live in Britain.

Everyone who is telling people they can just go and live in the spouse's country is relying on the spouse's country not being the arseholes that we are. If the spouse's country imposed reciprocal rules (as they have every right to do), how exactly would a married couple then live together?

What @Refbuckethat said but also it’s not just about getting people to get into health. It’s about keeping them there. The turnaround for nurses is ridiculous! I was a nurse for 5 years and then changed careers when I had children because we couldn’t afford a private childminder/no crèche spots! It’s a bloody vicious circle!

@Rosiiee agree re the issues around retention. I'm sure if hospital staff had access to 24/7 cheap childcare on site it would be a very different picture. I had a friend who used a cheap hospital based nursery but the hours were still only 7.30-6pm
Useless for a lot of staff