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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Do you think the new £38K income visa threshold for UK spouse visas is fair?

936 replies

zendeveloper · 04/12/2023 19:32

It is set at the same level as for work visas.

Feels completely crazy to me, but then, I am also an immigrant (although the changes don't affect me), so probably too sensitive to the topic. Would be interesting to hear MN opinion.

OP posts:
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murasaki · 04/12/2023 23:08

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Charming.
But do you not think people should think through the ramifications of their actions?

wordler · 04/12/2023 23:10

murasaki · 04/12/2023 23:00

If you're an office administrator, which i have been, where are you spending enough time with a foreign person who isn't already here too, to make a sensible judgment call about marrying them?

Well, I've already been married to them for 20 years which seems like enough time to decide they are the spouse for me!

MumblesParty · 04/12/2023 23:13

cakeorwine · 04/12/2023 21:47

I get really pissed off with comments like this.

Who keeps this country running?
Who provides essential services like NHS, teaching, public health, infrastructure, food production, water supply?

People on poor pay keep this country going. You may say that they "cost this country money" but without such people , this country couldn't make money. Food wouldn't get made, people wouldn't get an education,. people couldn't get hospital treatment.

If people on low wages decided to stop working en masse, this country would soon notice. And realise the importance of people and not say "Gosh, you poor person, You are not a net contributor. We would be better off and richer without you".

If all people who were seen as "not net contributors" stopped working, then you would change your mind about that statement.

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@cakeorwine of course people on low wages are vital for this country, we’d be lost without them, and it is absolutely right for UK state resources to provide support for people who need it. But we don’t need to import and support poor people from other countries. They should be supported by their own governments. (Obviously I’m not referring to asylum seekers).

MumblesParty · 04/12/2023 23:14

Tracker1234 · 04/12/2023 21:51

So why aren’t these places raided every week? They are everywhere. Surely they are a quick fix.

I often wonder this myself

beanontoast · 04/12/2023 23:14

murasaki · 04/12/2023 23:08

Charming.
But do you not think people should think through the ramifications of their actions?

Show quote history

People should but we now seem to live in a no-low responsibility culture these days

WhenLoveIsDone · 04/12/2023 23:14

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CormorantStrikesBack · 04/12/2023 23:15

murasaki · 04/12/2023 23:06

My point was that when I was doing that job, I had limited holidays, so wouldn't have built that kind of relationship abroad. It's a bit different from.a year's secondment to the New York office.

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Dd met her bf during a three week holiday. She was actually only there for four days but met him and extended her holiday. Since then it’s been long distance, mainly online with the odd visit.

Charlingspont · 04/12/2023 23:15

murasaki · 04/12/2023 23:00

If you're an office administrator, which i have been, where are you spending enough time with a foreign person who isn't already here too, to make a sensible judgment call about marrying them?

Maybe you met them on holiday, or while on a work trip to their country, then moved to their country for a few years to be with them. Maybe you got married in their country, but felt overwhelmingly that you needed to be back in your country (maybe you had young kids, maybe you had elderly parents, maybe your partner's country did not feel safe anymore).

murasaki · 04/12/2023 23:16

I only meant ramifications re the financial rules at the time. Couldn't care less where people are from if the rules are followed.

chaosmaker · 04/12/2023 23:16

As a carer, we should earn around that anyway but get paid a pittance. What kind of work gets paid that salary when it comes to work that needs doing but that there aren't the applications. In my sector we get loads of people that start, do the training and then never turn up. Complete waste of time and resources and we're still left with not enough people to do the work.

Wherearemykeysagain · 04/12/2023 23:17

It's indirect sex discrimination. It should be based on overall income of the couple not just the British person. For British women with an overseas husband and kids it's appallingly unfair. Your non-British husband could be earning £80/year and it wouldn't count. You might be on maternity leave or part time raising a family. If it were just about ensuring the family could meet their own needs then family income should be the measure.

Cattenberg · 04/12/2023 23:19

Dividing people into “net contributors” and “net takers” based solely on their income (or the amount of income tax they pay) is fundamentally flawed. It ignores the amount of VAT, NI and council tax etc. that these people pay, and the fact that low-paid workers tend to spend a greater percentage of their income in their local economy than the wealthy. Worse still, this approach completely disregards the value of the work itself.

For example, a supermarket chain in the UK might pay many of its workers the minimum wage, yet generate profits of more than £2 billion per year from their labour. Without the work of low-paid employees such as sales assistants, fruit pickers, warehouse operatives, catering staff, cleaners, bus drivers, refuse collectors, nursery nurses and healthcare assistants, the economy would soon grind to a halt.

It’s a myth that the majority of people in the UK who aren’t “net contributors” are people of working age who choose not to work. They are mostly pensioners and those on in-work benefits. My issue with in-work benefits isn’t that low-paid workers don’t need or deserve the money. It’s that the Treasury is subsidising companies who don’t pay their staff a fair living wage.

murasaki · 04/12/2023 23:20

@Charlingspont , ok, a possibility. And I agree there isn't a clear answer, but there needs to be a line somewhere . Where that is can still be up for debate, on reading this I have moved towards lowering it from my previous guess. I do think I'm getting a lot of grief for suggesting that we can't cope as a nation with what we have, and I include my elderly parents whose NHS use has ramped up in the last 6 months, so I don't know..was thinking aloud, never a good idea.

chaosmaker · 04/12/2023 23:21

Finlesswonder · 04/12/2023 22:52

@IceandIndigo
the biggest numbers of spouse visas were granted to spouses coming from South Asian countries, which was perceived to relate to arranged marriages involving people (especially women) who were relatively low skilled and less likely to be economically active once they arrived in Britain

We have a cultural expectation that able bodied adults be economically active. Why not these women too?

Surely everyone is economically active (stupid term) or they would never pay for or buy anything ever.

murasaki · 04/12/2023 23:21

Amd I did say it should be based on the couple's income

MumblesParty · 04/12/2023 23:21

WhenLoveIsDone · 04/12/2023 23:02

A lot of Britons are going to give up and just go live abroad and raise their kids with their foreign spouses somewhere where it isn't so fucking hard and expensive just to live and be.

Right to a family life? What a fucking JOKE.

You're an English man or Scottish woman who fell in love during a stint abroad? Had kids with some dirty American or New Zealander or Polish man? The message is STAY THERE, WE DON'T WANT YOU BACK.

I wonder how easy it would be for Britons to do that. Do other countries not have rules at all? I’ve had friends who’ve gone to work in Australia and New Zealand and they weren’t easy to get into.

wordler · 04/12/2023 23:22

murasaki · 04/12/2023 23:16

I only meant ramifications re the financial rules at the time. Couldn't care less where people are from if the rules are followed.

But again - how can some of us follow the rules if we are 'priced' out of the rules?

There are thousands of full-time jobs which require hard work and commitment, and a level of education which do not meet this income threshold in many parts of the country.

This rule says that those British citizens do not deserve to bring their spouse to live with them - without even giving them the option of showing why their job and circumstances would be just as economically viable to support their spouse and contribute to the UK as someone with a different job or the same job paying more in another part of the country.

murasaki · 04/12/2023 23:24

Joint income , and a higher rate in London than elsewhere maybe? I don't know, and nor do rhe government, clearly.

YerAWizardHarry · 04/12/2023 23:25

I genuinely don’t get mumsnet! On other threads £38K is seen as near on poverty..

wordler · 04/12/2023 23:26

MumblesParty · 04/12/2023 23:21

I wonder how easy it would be for Britons to do that. Do other countries not have rules at all? I’ve had friends who’ve gone to work in Australia and New Zealand and they weren’t easy to get into.

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The American system allows for third party sponsors - so if the spouse doesn't earn enough you can have another citizen - doesn't have to be a family member - submit the sponsorship papers and as long as they meet the income threshold including deductions for their own dependents then they can meet the financial requirement for you.

So in my case - my Dad would do that using his retirement income and we would be fine, if they UK allowed it.

Rewis · 04/12/2023 23:27

murasaki · 04/12/2023 23:06

My point was that when I was doing that job, I had limited holidays, so wouldn't have built that kind of relationship abroad. It's a bit different from.a year's secondment to the New York office.

Show quote history

I met my bf when I was doing an internship in the UK. Then we did long distance. Then I came to do my masters in the UK. Then he came to do his degree in my home country and we've been doing LDR when we're not in the same place meeting every month. Others in regular professional meeting foreignees are people who met while traveling, working/volunteering abroad and now would like to relocate to UK etc.

beanontoast · 04/12/2023 23:29

YerAWizardHarry · 04/12/2023 23:25

I genuinely don’t get mumsnet! On other threads £38K is seen as near on poverty..

Both takes are stupid. Realistically, 38k is neither poverty nor rich - it's literally about 3k above the average.

Garusmulp · 04/12/2023 23:37

I think it’s cruel that whether you get to marry someone is determined by how much you earn, especially when a lot of average jobs are paid less than the £38k minimum. It shouldn’t be down to the state to decide, in fact it should be no different if it were a marriage between two uk nationals.

Femme2804 · 04/12/2023 23:38

I’m immigrant. I married my husband english man 10 years ago. And his salary was £32k. I never work he can support me back then. Its crazy if i think if i’m married now i cant move here to be with him. I think its a bit too high if for spouse visa. It should be £25k-£30k. Even the average wage in england not that much.

Arafina · 04/12/2023 23:39

What a disgusting way to treat people, they want people to come and work here but not have a life here if they have to leave their partner and kids behind, we really are just numbers to them, humanity is dead with this government