To be filled with panic about WFH culture becoming a thing of the past?

[themusingsofaninsomniac]

prefacing with please read the context before blanket responses 😊

I am stressing away as I tend to do lately on the same topic. I have WFH since the pandemic, with the odd day or so in the office I am lucky to have full flexibility with.

I have Autism. I also have ADHD. The combo together is quite the clusterfuck to navigate as a newly diagnosed female. Essentially the pandemic shone a light on so much and I'm so grateful that it enabled me to seek diagnosis, as much as it's an ongoing struggle.

From working remotely since the beginning I've never felt more stable and successful in my career. I was able to secure a promotion into a field I'd never have had the confidence to try in a non-remote setting in the first place, and I've been fortunate to earn a fair bit more as a result.

I feel completely at ease in my own environment and with the ability to tailor things to what works well for me. Having that commute time back has helped my wellbeing, as has having my lunch breaks in my own home. I am in a routine that I feel helps my mental health and the challenges neurodiversity brings me massively.

My current employer is great but they are the type of company that won't be around forever unfortunately. And from a lot of media and on here etc, it's becoming obvious that things are shifting to either back in the office or a hybrid with a good half your days expected in the office.

This absolutely fills me with dread. I feel like it would turn my world upside down. I'm sure people who don't relate to this will think I'm being dramatic but change and environments outside of your own control are so so hard especially once you've had several years of the opposite.

I guess I'm just wondering where this leaves me. I still have a few friends who WFH but not in my industry. I'm not sure if there would be more flexibility for me, but I also worry about how that will reflect towards my colleagues and I don't want to get anyone's back up. I guess I'm catastrophising that if I need to find another job I'll never be able to maintain what is working so well for me.

Not sure what I'm seeking here to be honest - reassurance maybe or just help to navigate this and whether it's best to be upfront with new employers from the start, or whether that might reduce my chances of being hired. I've been told I don't present as autistic, or typical ADHD but I guess the mix of both means it's a lot more blended. Either way I have generally got good feedback from interviews so it would likely not be known unless I was transparent.

I'd especially like to hear from someone in a similar boat too, if there is anyone? Probably not at twenty to one on a weekday though I imagine 😅

Thanks to anyone who has read this to the end as I know that got wordy!

I was going to say something similar to this. Sure there are some companies really pushing coming back to the office, to the point of saying stupid shit like it being criminal for employees not to come in, but with a societal focus on mental health and wellbeing, working to live not living to work, etc, I think a lot of people will continue to push WFH. I am approached by recruiters all the time and I always tell them if the job isn't 100% remote I'm not interested and they always come back with companies who allow wfh. I guess it depends on what you do, how realistic it is to wfh, but if it is and you're a skilled worker who can demand what they want, I think you are fine.

Tech. Many software engineers I work with have worked from home for most of their careers, even before the pandemic and most now won't even entertain a recruiter who doesn't have a fully wfh job opp.

Some pretty big players in the tech sector, including Canonical and Gitlab, are fully remote and have been since long before the pandemic. The tech sector is not going to say "oh ok, into the office, guys".

I was the subject of multiple complaints each year, because sensory overload would cause shutdowns at work and I had no ability to communicate effectively with NT people in conflict situations.

I changed jobs often to avoid being managed out. The longest I was anywhere was four years and several jobs were measured in months.

My life outside of work was mostly spent sleeping. I did very little socially.

Lockdown kicked in a couple of years into my current job and we went WFH and then hybrid. I've been complained about only once since lockdown. I've had no shutdowns in that time and asynchronous communication on Teams means that I can defer my replies and request that a colleague review my messages for tone. I play in music groups outside work now and have energy to tackle minor housework in evenings instead of it all waiting until the weekend. And I've been in this job six years, which is a lifetime record.

I'm in my forties and for the first time I have a life, not just an existence. I'm not going back.

It is nuts that people who are WFH are worried about having to go back, when the Government is on about disabled people taking on WFH roles to get back into the work force. Where are these roles?

My bf has ASD and his adjustments for that are WFH and doing his 8 hours in any pattern he can manage.

I forgot to mention the migraines. I used to get so many migraines that I was triggering the absence management procedures every year. I now get half that number because I can control the lightning in my study, and when I do get them I can go to bed for a couple of hours and then return to working, instead of travelling home whilst temporarily partially-sighted and in agonising pain.

I completely agree. Even if some individuals consider themselves to have benefited from WFH, on a population level I think the impact on mental health, socialization, etc. is devastating.

Only under capitalism would the workplace be considered a social space. There is something deeply wrong when people advocate going to work for its alleged social benefits. Why aren't people socialising in hobby groups? Rotary Club? The local pub? Pubs are closing left right and centre, support your local or lose it.

When you use the workplace as your social space, you let your employer choose your friends. I prefer to socialise with people of my choosing, outside of the workplace. Interacting with people uses huge amounts of my energy because I am autistic. Why would I waste that energy on people I only tolerate because I am paid to work in the same office as them, if I could instead be paid to work alone?

By socialization I'm referring to the process of adapting behaviors to function well within wider society, rather than colleagues hanging out over a cup of coffee or happy hour. I see it a lot with the new grads at my workplace. Because they've spent so much time working alone (lectures online, WFH initially) they seem, as a group, markedly unaware of group norms about working collaboratively, sharing space, etc. Lack of compromise/understanding about the "unspoken rules" of the physical environment, and generally struggling with how to rub along with people that they wouldn't necessarily have chosen to spend time with. And very much focused on the good/convenience of the individual rather than the interests of the wider team/department/company.

There will always be remote jobs but you may need to change industry/role to get them and they seem to be paid a little less then in office in expensive cities

If you're not already try and move into tech, project management, UX, VFX. These industries also employ HR, accounts etc. just like another company

I have no idea what you do so just making suggestions

@wannabetraveler exactly that. We can't always only socialise and interact with people like us. Communities rely on co operation and unwritten rules even with people you are not keen on. School and the workplace is often how you learn this stuff.

I've had recent grads in the office asking to dial in to an in person meeting from their desk - "because it will be easier". The reason I wanted them at the meeting in the first place was not for their valuable contribution, but to observe how more senior staff interact with senior stakeholders.

It is not just shown in the workplace that too much time at home has blunted this muscle - there are a lot of stories about selfish and socially oblivious behaviour in other public spaces - football, cinema, theatre etc... since lockdown.

I think the bit about focusing on their own interests first being described as a negative in socialisation terms is another thing that could only have come from capitalism, really. And more specifically the particular conditions of capitalism we've had until quite recently, ie where employers have been more likely to hold the balance of power.

It's only to be expected that people are more interested in their own welfare than that of the entity where they happen to do their wage labour, especially not in a society where workers increasingly know their value. It's just that the system we had created an expectation where lots of people were expected to pretend otherwise.

Which isn't to say that people coming into the workplace now, having had some of their last years of education during the lockdown periods, aren't going to have been impacted by that specifically, of course.

I have always worked in jobs that cannot be done at home. I'm also autistic (although i didn't know that until much later in life. Just thought i was weird and abnormal because i struggled so much socially) I hated school and college and found it so hard to make friends even though I desperately wanted to. It was a very lonely existence in my teen years. Then i entered the work force at 18. My first job was in a big teaching hospital. The social side of it was amazing! I still struggled hugely socially (and I'm sure i was very inappropriate and stupid at times) but by being around different age adults and watching them all interact and form relationships (both professionally and socially) I can see now how much I grew up and started to learn how to function as an adult. 25 years later I still have one friend I made then.
Now I'm in my 40s I'm not as bothered about mixing with colleagues socially outside of work. And while I may not class any of them as actual friends I still have an amazing laugh at work and enjoy spending time with them at lunch or the odd Christmas party etc.
I remember absolutely loving the first lockdown as I was at home for 4 months. But I became very isolated and even though I thought I loved it I can see how I was starting to withdraw into myself like how I was as a teenager. I started to avoid talking to my friends much and made excuses why I didn't want to go out anywhere.
So while I understand why some people (esp ND people) may prefer working at home, I'm not sure it is always beneficial in the long run (For some. Not everyone obviously). I know for a fact I'd have JUMPED at the chance to work from home as an 18 year old. But I definitely wouldn't have made the progress I have in social aspects if I had. I would likely have become emotionally and socially stunted at forever 18 and "teenagery". Looking back now I can see how being around "proper adults" helped me develop my social skills and become a functioning adult myself.
(Apologies if this isn't hugely coherent I do still struggle with making myself clear at times)

they seem, as a group, markedly unaware of group norms about working collaboratively, sharing space, etc. Lack of compromise/understanding about the "unspoken rules" of the physical environment, and generally struggling with how to rub along with people that they wouldn't necessarily have chosen to spend time with

That's what being autistic is like, but for life and despite being exposed to group environments for decades.

What you call "unspoken rules" are what I call "expectation traps" and navigating these is amongst the many many unreasonable adjustments that autistic people are expected to make for neurotypical people every day. A simple reasonable adjustment that neurotypical people could make for both autistic people and these recent graduates is to write the unwritten rules down.

And very much focused on the good/convenience of the individual rather than the interests of the wider team/department/company.

Written like a good little capitalist. Why on earth would I, or any rational person, put my employer ahead of my health? Why would I, or any rational person, exhaust myself doing my job in a stressful group environment when I can work with better focus alone? Why would I, or any rational person, risk my health avoidably? Why would I, or any rational person, increase my migraine rate avoidably?

The reason I wanted them at the meeting in the first place was not for their valuable contribution, but to observe how more senior staff interact with senior stakeholders.

If I wanted to know that, I'd watch a rimming porn video.

there are a lot of stories about selfish and socially oblivious behaviour in other public spaces - football, cinema, theatre etc... since lockdown.

Again, write the rules down. It's a series of expectation traps until you do.

Excellent, excellent posts there from @VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia 👌🏼

Where would you like all these rules about how to behave in the cinema written down?
They already tell you before the film not to talk or use your phone. Yet people do it anyway. I don't think that's a ND issue. That's a selfish people issue. And I don't think writing the rules down will suddenly make it better.

@VitoCorleoneOfMNMafia well aren't you a delight.

its also not about following rules- it’s about ( often on the spot) assessing the situation and playing it as it lays. No one can give you a set of rules for going into a meeting to try and ( eg) get a vote approved or get an audit approval or whatever. It depends how the meeting goes, who is there, what their alliances are, how much they care on this particular subject, if they owe you or anyone else an favour, etc. To quote the great, late, Kenny Rogers “ you’ve got to know when to hold em, know when to fold em”. This is stuff you only really learn from watching other people do it and then them explaining it afterwards.

As my boss once said “ it’s not a perfect result but it is a perfect compromise” in that everyone came out feeling they’d not been screwed over. There are no rules that can get you there. It’s just practice.

I agree with this. I really really struggled in my younger years knowing how to behave in many situations. I could have just thrown my hands up and said well I'm autistic (if I had known I was) so it's just how I am and its how I will stay. But I'm actually glad I DIDN'T know I was autistic so tried harder to learn. Some will say I'm just masking. Maybe I am at times. However I actually feel so much more comfortable in certain situations knowing how to behave rather than feeling awkward. So while it may not come naturally I actually feel more at ease because I'm not standing out as the weirdo.
Here's one random example. I'm currently in the hairdressers. They used to offer me a hot drink and I'd say yes. Then while they were doing my hair it would sit there getting cold as I wasn't sure how I was meant to drink it while they were doing my hair as I was worried I'd disturb them. So I either wouldn't drink it at all (and feel really stupid when they asked what was wrong with it) or I'd drink it stone cold at the end and it was disgusting.
I remember sitting next to a lady one day who said to the hairdresser oh let me just have a drink of this before it goes cold! I remember thinking Ah!! That's what I should do! And it's clearly OK to do that as she wasn't embarrassed and the hairdresser was fine with it! So now I do similar! I don't consider that masking. Its just that I've learned how to deal with a situation that was making me feel awkward before.
And this applies to many aspects of life including at work. Watching others behave in a way helps me know how to behave.

It depends how the meeting goes, who is there, what their alliances are, how much they care on this particular subject, if they owe you or anyone else an favour, etc.

No mention at all of the wisdom and validity of the actual thing being voted on? No wonder companies go bust and fraud is overlooked and all other kinds of bad things happen! People are voting for stupid things because they owe someone a favour? Gimme a break.

When I talk about neurotypical culture being toxic and harmful and irrational, this is the exact kind of behaviour I am talking about.

@Ginmonkeyagain Ingratiating oneself with others in order to achieve one's aims is known as "arse licking". I was riffing on that slang term. A fuller description of why I don't care to learn the insane and toxic ways of senior management is given above.

But I'm actually glad I DIDN'T know I was autistic so tried harder to learn. Some will say I'm just masking. Maybe I am at times.

The problem I had with being undiagnosed autistic is that I kept trying ever harder and failing and failing and failing to learn the unwritten rules avoid expectation traps to accommodate neurotypical people and thinking it was my fault that I was failing. I have physical scars from self-harm because I kept thinking it was my fault. Depending on how autism manifests for each individual, the "just try harder" approach might or might not work. It didn't work for me and it just made me utterly exhausted and clinically diagnosed, medicated, self-harming, suicidal levels of depressed.

There are times when it is appropriate to mask, but you shouldn't have to live all day every day in a masked state. Coaching can help with social skills and it should be available without having to wait months or years for it.

I do agree that obviously trying harder won't work for everyone. There are some things in life I still cannot do that others can. I am still clearly the slightly odd one in lots of situations. But I think the problem is there a tendency in some cases for people to just say "well I'm autistic and that's that". For any ND people I think seeing how far you can go and how much you can learn is essential. I'm not saying for example to take an autistic child who hates crowds into the middle of Oxford Street on a Saturday every week and hope he learns to deal with it. But if the first time the child shows stress of being in a crowded situation you just say OK well we're never doing that again then I don't think that child is being helped in the long run.
I have a friend with an autistic child. (Much more affected than me in lots of ways. It was very very obvious from when he was 2/3 and he was non verbal until 6/7). She has worked so hard to help him and has pushed him gently out of his comfort zone over the years. At 6 he couldn't go to a cinema or sports match or theatre etc. He can now. There was many many times she spent money on a ticket and then left after 15 minutes as he couldn't cope. But she still tried over the years and learned when he had had enough. He's now an adult and living in an assisted living type home. But he loves going to cinema and football matches with his carer and friends. And he knows how to behave appropriately in those places. If she'd have given up after the first disaster cinema outing he'd never be enjoying those things he is now.
Obviously if had got to the point he wasn't improving at all or it was getting worse she would have stopped. And there are obviously some things he still can't do and she knows they are just too much for him. That's fine. But I honestly think at times people don't even try at all let alone try harder. They just decide they can't do something and so that's it. You don't know how far and how much you can do if you give up immediately. This applies to all people as well not just ND people.

I agree with paper, as someone in the same situation. I think trying things and really doing your best to get a good understanding of what you find difficult, why, how it might be improved, what's worth working on v what's a bridge too far - it's all really helpful. And being in a workplace, even a not very accommodating one, can be a useful lesson.

Spoken like a real Millenial. ME, ME, ME until it comes to money when everybody else is expected to fork out. Many of us get pleasure from work, the satisfaction of a job well done, the camaraderie of workmates, the striving together for a goal