Dog ownership - responsibility not a right

[Baffledandalarmed]

My friend is considering getting a Golden.

I have one, and he is everything a Golden should be. He’s high energy (2+hrs a day off the lead which is 8-10 miles at my walking speed) and still ready for more, high mental stimulation needs, expensive to insure and feed, boisterous and quite needy. He’ll grow out of the last two as he’s still young, but he’ll always be high energy and need lots of mental stimulation. I knew this when I decided to get him. I also have another high energy dog. The Golden is everything his breed should be in much the same way a Jack Russel is instinctively going to be a destructive (including digging holes) if it’s also not exercised given its instincts.

IMO she is in no way capable of giving a Golden the exercise or stimulation it needs.

I have always viewed dog ownership as ‘A responsibility not a right.’ I would never get a dog breed that I wasn’t capable of meeting the needs of (I.e I’d love a collie but outside of the v. select few families who do have the right lifestyle, they are not appropriate family pets for the majority).

So, wise people on mumsnet - tell me;

YABU - everyone has a right to a dog of any breed, regardless of whether having a dog fits with their lifestyle choices. You should beak out.

YANBU - It is a responsibility to own a dog and people should get breeds that fit their lifestyle. You should be a good friend and explain the risk she is running if she gets a high energy/high stimulation dog like a Golden and gentle steer her away to something less energetic like a Chinese crested or even a guinea pig.

YANBU and the same could be said about people having kids.

And I don't want a dog to suffer because it's owner didn't really think it through before they got them...and just got it because they had always wanted that breed
That's not unreasonable, so what matters is how you communicate it.

Dog owners' lifestyles and situations can change and it's important to consider different scenarios, and accept that some owners will have seasons that aren't ideal but they do their best for their dogs during that time. Offering advice and guidance on a non-judgmental way is probably going to be more effective than being prescriptive and banging on about long walk, multiple hours of exercise etc.

Maybe show your friend different exercise patterns for a GR or similar dogs with the message that your dog may have exercise needs within this window and you'll only know your dog's personality and temperament once you get them. Have you considered how this will fit into your lifestyle because you can't rely on them being at the lower end?

Here's some typical costs for a dog so you can have a look at how it fits with your budget.

It's not just the duration or distance of the walk, it's the mental stimulation. A dog could be walked for 3 hours per day, and without the correct mental stimulation, all you'd end up with is a fitter dog. It doesn't need this length of walk, there are other ways to stimulate it. I have a working line Lab, and play nose games, and other things to enable me not to have to walk miles per day. That said, he does often get an hour morning and evening, but more of an amble.

I would struggle with any dog being left alone for that length of time though. That isn't good.

I foster for a rescue. Lots of the dogs I see are dumped because people had not thought through the responsibilities of owning a dog.

I get dogs that have separation anxiety, reactive, resource guarding - all sorts. Lots of high energy dogs that are terribly cute as puppies and a massive commitment as they grow up.

You know what sorts them out? 2 hours off lead a day (once I've trained frock solid recall) and a non extendable long line/lunge rope until then.

It's should not be a right. I see the results of that every day.

Current foster is 5 year old working cocker bitch - dumped at the side of the road after she's bred multiple litters of your cute cockerpoos.

She is lovely. She has been kept in a dark shed for 5 years. She's one of the lucky ones. Most are pts by the dog warden if they can't find a rescue place. Loads more are just killed by the "breeder".

So your fiend is nuts it she thinks she can have a golden retriever and leave it all day.

OR she's going to have to budget c£40 a day for dog walkers/doggy day care. For ever.

The fact that so many people on here thing 2 hours off lead is too much is why most people shouldn't get a dog.

No dog needs 2h of exercise a day, I have two lurchers and a spaniel who go rabbiting and I give them 90 minutes of hard exercise before the autumn to get them in working condition - a dog will take as much as you give it and you're creating a super fit dog as a pet owner for no reason if you do that.

It's fine to have a breed like a golden who has an hour pootle around a day aslong as he can get 15 mins of hard exercise like retrieving to get all of his energy around, pet dogs don't need to be made fit for no reason, it just becomes a chore for the owner when the dog always wants more. Aslong as it gets a decent walk a day and is a part of family life and gets to watch things going on and steal crumbs and sniff around in its garden on and off throughout the day it will be a happy dog.

I've been noticing alot of pet owners walking their dogs far too much and acting as though other owners are lacking when their less fit dogs don't need as much. Your fit dog will ofcourse need that much to be mentally healthy, a less conditioned dog will not. Especially when so many dogs are neutered, they have even less need for such intense exercise. I could understand if he was thinking of getting a malinois, but a dog like a golden is made fit and amped up through choice not design.

You're mad exercising it that much. You create a very athletic dog that NEEDS a lot of exercise. You absolutely need to stimulate their brains and regular exercise. Just don't go mad or you have a problem of your own making.

I disagree that certain breeds don’t need lots of exercise and stimulation.

No one I know who has a working breed type dog could get away with not giving them long walks. These dogs were made to run and work.

More to the point, the breeders I’ve used or spoken to (as I hunt around for the right breeder) for my last two dogs wouldn’t even let me view the puppies until I had given proof that I was capable of giving them sufficient exercise, a large garden and would be home most of the time! They had had to many puppies returned (up to the six month mark) because they were to energetic and owners couldn’t cope. One breeder even refused to sell me a Golden as I wasn’t going to ‘work’ the dog and she felt they needed more than I could give - good. She was very polite and a responsible breeder.

Some breeds do need more exercise than others, just as some breeds need more grooming than others etc. I don’t think we can, or should, pretend otherwise - it’s unfair on the dogs if they are not given what they deserve and need

Your friend will need to employ a dogwalker for her days at work. That's the only thing I'd be judgy about. 8 to 6 every day is too long without exercise and company.

If she can do a quick early morning walk, then dogwalker middayish, then an evening walk after work for 20 or 30 minutes, even... that would be great.

Not sure what else makes her unsuitable.

You should always choose a breed that suits your lifestyle- otherwise that’s how rescues fill up with problematic dogs. Ownership is a massive commitment for 10-15 years.
It really isn’t a right - the reason we have dogs that can’t breathe is because people think they have the right to a dog with massive bulgy eyes and a squashed nose because it looks cute. But that’s a whole other thing.

YABU but not because everyone has a right to have a dog, but because you don't have right to be the arbiter of people's choices.

I have a lab who would happily run 4 hours a day if I gave him the chance, but he's coping perfectly well with 45 mins most days, and longer when we can.

I don't think anyone has the right to own an animal. But if I find myself with an animal I have a responsibility to look after it properly.

I would love a dog, but my circumstances doesn't allow it. So I haven't got one. When I do get one, it will be a breed that suits my novice doggy journey. I wouldn't choose a large dog like a Golden for example. I'd choose a small or medium sized dog. I would learn all about it's traits and personality. I'd get a dog that suits my lifestyle. Goldens are gorgeous but they aren't for everyone.

I had a teeny tiny Lhasa apso and most days I would take her out for 90 minutes to two hours. We didn’t cover the same miles but we were out for that time. Once in the morning and longer in the evening! Struggling to understand everyone who thinks two hours is way too long!

im With you OP.

I don't think she can afford one.

Anyway, I took PPs advice and invited her on my morning dog walk tomorrow. Suggested we meet at the beach at 8am and then get a coffee after. She has said no as it is still due to be -1 at 8am where we are. But she will meet me for an afternoon coffee instead (but again said no to joining me on my afternoon dog walk as it'll be too cold).

I'll be as diplomatic as possible when I raise it with her over coffee - although I now won't have the stick of her having walked my dogs with me to show her just how energetic they can be.

Anyway, I took PPs advice and invited her on my morning dog walk tomorrow. Suggested we meet at the beach at 8am and then get a coffee after. She has said no as it is still due to be -1 at 8am where we are. But she will meet me for an afternoon coffee instead (but again said no to joining me on my afternoon dog walk as it'll be too cold).

You're not wrong op!! I'm curious though does she want a GR because she likes yours so much?

Yanbu for trying to stop her. The dog she gets will be bored, lonely and destroy her house out or boredom and anxiety.

Also if she can't afford dog care she can't afford vet bills. I think dogs are a huge emotional support (I have a cherished spaniel) but my friends delightful GR fell off a wall and broke her leg few years back. Made a good recovery but vet bill went way over the insurance and was upwards of £4k iirc. My vet has a sign on the reception desk saying bills must be paid upfront now as opposed to waiting for insurance company to cough up so you need that cash in the bank!!! It's scary but potential puppy buyers need to know!!

I adore my dog and I have no regrets but as my first pup to end of life (had adult rescues in the past) I lecture people often about the vast commitment and financial drain they are. No hiding from it!

My labrador is nearly 10 and gets a minimum 1.5 hours walking a day. I'm surprised anyone can say that a gun dog needs less than this. She is older and doesn't hare around as she used to when she was younger but if she doesn't get at least two good long walks a days she (metaphorically) bounces off the walls. Plus all the sniffing involved is good for her brain and stops her getting bored.

Surely it's obvious that you chose your dog according to your/your families requirements. Like OP, I'd never get a collie because I don't have the ability to give it the constant stimulation it needs. Dogs aren't toys or accessories - they're living creatures with needs that we, as owners, are obliged to meet. If I am not meeting my dog's needs then I am neglecting her.

Your friend should not get any dog, @Baffledandalarmed if she is too nesh to walk it because it's a bit cold at the moment. IMO cold is much more preferable to wet! It's the wet walks through mud, the hosing of my dog, towelling her off, brushing her, washing the vast numbers of towels she gets through each week and living with the smell of damp labrador that is the worst part of dog ownership for me!

You're not wrong op!! I'm curious though does she want a GR because she likes yours so much?

She's always wanted one as long as I've known her (twenty years!). But I think the number of YouTube videos of perfectly behaved docile Goldens has made her think that every Golden is like that 100% of the time.

@Waspie - agreed, if she doesn't want to walk a dog when it's cold then she definitely won't when it's snowing or pouring with rain or icy! A cold, crisp morning walk is probably the best type of walk IMO! Then a stop off after for a coffee and a bacon roll (which of course is half eaten by the dogs...)

My greyhound would have an absolute fit if I tried to walk her for 2 hrs every day! 😂

That's the great thing about greyhounds, they are built for short sharp bursts of action and then lie around for the rest of the time (usually with their legs in the air!)

@Mothership4two my MIL pretty much every time she saw my cousins greyhound (he used to live with us 3 months in a year): "such elegant dogs!"
The greyhound in the background:
(not my picture, but it's almost identical)

You just can't help but love them, crazy as they are.

Totally unrelated but I love your user name! I'm a catfordian myself, and love that bloody ugly cat!

Just to update although it's probably only me that cares:

Met friend for coffee. Lots of discuss re. finances/who would look after dog/what a tosser my Golden can be.

Outcome: friend went away to reconsider whether a Golden is the right dog for her (having admitted that my Golden and the ones on YouTube had perhaps given a fake sense on what they were like

This morning: Friend texted wondering whether a Cavalier might be a better choice! (Good for a first time owner, small, doesn't cost as much to feed etc, less exercise requirements although still fairly needy). She's going to discuss with her DP and then take some time to think.

Panic over! Thanks to those who agreed with me re. Goldens not being the right dog (sometimes you just need a sense check that you're not being a tosser!)

Panic over!

Well not really. She is still going to have a dog that is left alone for 10 hours a day as you say she can't afford day care/walking. Can she actually afford a dog at all (they are not cheap to keep and vet fees in the UK are high)? Glad she is not getting a high energy dog which probably would have been a short lived disaster. Sad for whatever poor dog she does end up with that will have quite a crappy day to day life.

Not much you can do OP other than try and talk her out of this as well. She is either thoughtless and/or selfish

Well, quite!

But I'm hopeful that now she's realised a big dog isn't suitable she might be a bit more realistic about what is/isn't going to work! Better to tackle it gently in stages than blurt out that a dog isn't a good choice at all (that would definitely have gone down like a lead balloon).

I think it's more an overwhelming desire for a dog and the life she believes dog people have (as I said, she seemed to think that Tucker Bundz and Ellie/Ella off YouTube are what every golden is like...) rather than being selfish.

On finances, I don't think she can afford it...but discussing my worries on finances would have been a bit too far...as it was I felt a tad awkward pointing out how much my dogs cost to feed!

I'm am going to steer her towards responsible breeders - hopefully they'll also talk her down like the first breeder I approached for a Golden did to me on taking a working line one!

It'll be a multi-pronged approach...

yanbu

many people underestimate the effort & costs it takes to take care of a pet well.

and tbh most pet dogs live a cruel life with not all of their needs met.

"2 hours of off lead walks every day is bonkers and completely unobtainable to most dog owners."

What is best for the dog is the sole issue here. IMHO you should look at "best practice" for the breed and unless you can meet those requirements or damn close then don't get one. In fact I'd go further and say that the bare minimum for any dog ownership is one adult in the house who does not work AT ALL and who is able to prioritize the dog for a fairly large proportion of the week. Even then if the family go away at weekends regularly doing non-dog-friendly things then they shouldn't get one.

I am much more of a cat person, and to be honest I'm not sure we are able to give our CAT the attention he wants and deserves, and we are a family with one work from home and one part time work from home, and we rarely go away at weekends. [Our cat is more needy than most!]

Pets are exactly like children - if you're not able to do a pretty damn good job of prioritizing them then don't get one! A pet or a child should be all about them and not at all about you.