Dog ownership - responsibility not a right

[Baffledandalarmed]

My friend is considering getting a Golden.

I have one, and he is everything a Golden should be. He’s high energy (2+hrs a day off the lead which is 8-10 miles at my walking speed) and still ready for more, high mental stimulation needs, expensive to insure and feed, boisterous and quite needy. He’ll grow out of the last two as he’s still young, but he’ll always be high energy and need lots of mental stimulation. I knew this when I decided to get him. I also have another high energy dog. The Golden is everything his breed should be in much the same way a Jack Russel is instinctively going to be a destructive (including digging holes) if it’s also not exercised given its instincts.

IMO she is in no way capable of giving a Golden the exercise or stimulation it needs.

I have always viewed dog ownership as ‘A responsibility not a right.’ I would never get a dog breed that I wasn’t capable of meeting the needs of (I.e I’d love a collie but outside of the v. select few families who do have the right lifestyle, they are not appropriate family pets for the majority).

So, wise people on mumsnet - tell me;

YABU - everyone has a right to a dog of any breed, regardless of whether having a dog fits with their lifestyle choices. You should beak out.

YANBU - It is a responsibility to own a dog and people should get breeds that fit their lifestyle. You should be a good friend and explain the risk she is running if she gets a high energy/high stimulation dog like a Golden and gentle steer her away to something less energetic like a Chinese crested or even a guinea pig.

I should probably clarify by 'off the lead' I mean he just runs along next to me as I walk! He's not having a ball thrown or being too over stimulated.

It's two hours a day off the lead through fields and beaches rather than two hours plodding around a town centre (for example)

@Baffledandalarmed having her spend some time with your goldens sounds like a brilliant idea. Could you suggest she have them overnight? So she has to do all the feeds, all the exercising etc? It might hammer home the responsibility a touch more.

If she's a good friend, I can't think that she would take offense in you asking how she's planning on keeping the dog stimulated while she's at work. I can't imagine that she'll want the poor thing to destroy her house while she's at work!

I've not voted because whilst I agree with you that dog ownership is a responsibility and people should consider their lifestyle when choosing a dog, I think you've fallen I to the trap of being one of those sanctimonious "I do 10 miles / hours of dog walks every day and anyone who can't do that shouldn't have a dog, aren't I an amazing dog owner" owners.

Yep, depressing isn't it

It sounds like a bad idea for someone who is out all day to get a dog (any dog) unless they have a plan for Ddog's care. TBH I think the breed is somewhat irrelevant - it wouldn't be good for a small dog or a less energetic dog to be by itself all day either.

Ask her what doggy day care facility she's looking at. What is she thinking about doing when she's out all day? Who will walk dog? Who will socialize dog? Has she considered the additional costs? Point out potential pitfalls to her of having a dog that isn't sufficiently socialised or exercised. (Destructive behaviour / other behavioural problems typical of bored / under socialised and under exercised dogs). As well as the additional expense of providing dog with what it needs if she can't do it herself.

If she's short of cash maybe she won't actually buy one anyway - show her the numbers!

I am not just a dog owner, I am a Golden dog owner…

OP, you are not wrong but be careful how you sound. Talk to her in a matter of fact way. It’s privileged to be able to spend so much money on a dog, and to have 2 hours a day to spend in fields and beaches.. and sounds a bit smug to say that other dog walks are ‘plodding’ while you exalt your walking pace and distance.

I didn't meant to be smug!

I think the point is that owning a working breed or a breed that was bred to be energetic or do a job (Jack Russel/Retriever/German Shepard etc) is v. different to owning a breed bred to be a lapdog such as a Pekingese. Working dogs don't just need lots of walking they need lots of stimulation.

If she wanted to get a Japanese Chin or any of the little breeds that don't need to much physical and/or mental stimulation, I wouldn't be half as concerned. Of course they still need exercise/mental stimulation, but not anywhere near as much.

It's the fact that Goldens are portrayed by the media as being some sort of lovable family pet and a breeze to own...when reality is just not like that (as it is for many dogs tbh) that has worried me. I don't think she's fully considered what it is really like (I'd be just as concerned if she said she wanted to get a spaniel tbh).

But thank you and all PPs for the pointers!

I'll do what PPs have suggested and invite her to my morning walk on Saturday and then suggest we grab a coffee after.

She shouldn't get a dog because it sounds like she can't afford it.
However on the 2 hours thing - depends on the dog. I have a young, high energy dog (spaniel) who is happy with an hour a day in our local woods (big sniffy environment) but she's also not climbing the walls if you can only do half an hour.
Every dog is different, my friend has a spaniel who she's walked two hours a day since it was old enough to do that much and now it's climbing the walls if it gets any less.

But not all golden retrievers are from working lines. Show line golden retrievers havr completely different nerds/tempermant than working.

In your friends situation she shpuldn't get any dog from working lines

After reading the clueless posts on here, I suggest OP you're on a hiding to nothing talking to your friend.

Reading this thread it seems UK dog owners haven't a clue. A previous poster even mentioned it was equivalent to running a marathon!!!

Madness! Complete anthropomorphism!!

Most dogs would prefer a really good walk than a "mind game". I think it suits the lazy owners well to believe it's just a good as a walk!!

Lazy fuckers.

And I know not all dogs love walks, I had a corgi cross who didn't not like going out if it was wet! Tough! We went out! She lived until she was over 20!!

I now have a cocker cross, he couldn't get enough exercise! Never managed to tire that dog out!!

However he's now 16 and just about manages half a mile before I have to carry him home.

Such selfish, lazy dog owners.

Just go to the cafe then and pose!

Look at us and our 2 kids, and lab and hunter wellies. Go to the forest for a walk? Oh no, we'll give him some mind games instead.

Fucking Insta generation!

Sorry for rant. Just hate the way dogs are treated at the moment.

I'll walk way from the thread now 🐶

It is a responsibility. But to a point you train the dog you want. If you keep walking a dog you create an athlete. But many GR are more chilled than yours sounds to be.
8-6 is a long time to leave a sociable breed though

Maybe people are reacting to the fact that OP actually needs 'wise' mumsnetters to confirm something that is so obvious when you look at how she has worded the 'yabu'..
👏👏👏exactly this, op, did you really need to put a vote?!

Nobody knows whether they’ll step up to the responsibility of dog ownership until it happens unfortunately and nobody listens when people tell them it’s bloody hard. (We didn’t and people haven’t when we’ve told them and now they say they find it difficult). I did recently come to the conclusion that every household works so differently and a lot of things find their balance plus every dog is different so I wouldn’t assume someone is going to fail before they try. Within a week or two she might change over her routine to fit the dog

YANBU, your friend sounds like she has no idea of the realities of dog ownership. So many people fail to realise that dogs are sentient beings and not lifestyle accessories, and that they have needs their owners have to try and meet. If you'd be happy to lend her your dog for a day or so, it might help her understand what dog ownership actually looks like - it's not all crisp autumnal walks with Insta-worthy pics, and a floofy friend to snuggle with on the couch after a day at work.

we had my cousins dog and then my friends dog to stay at ours when they were on holiday.

We all loved the idea of a dog, but after 2 weeks of walking the dogs, we were always glad to hand them back.

We finally got our own dog, when we had a holiday stay and at the end I realised that I liked going for a walk every morning, and wanted to continue.

I walk 1-1.5 hours every morning. Dh walks an hour every evening. I wouldn't walk a dog for less unless it was a small lapdog type breed.

I would have a coffee with her and offer for her to stay at yours for 2 days and do everything with you for the dog. So if she needs to leave for work at 8, then both get up at 5:30, walk the dog for 1.5 hours and then get ready for work. Or after work do that long walk.
Talk about what she will need in place ot leave him all day (dog walker etc) and then how you can't do that until he is xxx old, and what is she going to do while a puppy and so on.
Do it as a supportive friend, not as a criticism.

She might be your friend. But I'm not sure you're hers.

Well that’s a MASSIVE drip feed 😂😂😂

This is actually what I would suggest (spending a day with you and your golden). If possible, choose a cold, rainy day, so that she gets the full picture and realizes that dog ownership does not only consist of cuddling puppies.

It does sound like she shouldn't be getting a dog, no matter what breed. We have a puppy at the moment. It's my third and still I find myself surprised that it's such hard work. It's worth it in the end, but still, my DH and I have been working from home alternately these last 4 months. I would never leave our pup alone for the entire day, we're up to two hours now and it's plenty!

And two hours walk a day is definitely not too much, my Vizsla needed even more than that. Even then, walks are not everything and they need other outlets.

I do worry when people say they need a dog because they can't get out or because they have mental health issues
I definitely think people in this situation are not suitable for dog ownership

You need space, time, fitness and energy to look after a dog well

I own a working line German Shepherd. She does not get 2+ hours of exercise and stimulation a day. She’s the most chilled out dog in the house. You can’t generalise I’m afraid, and as far as dogs go, Goldens are one of the easiest breeds out there so YABU.

You are CHOOSING to give your dog that much exercise and mental stimulation. They do not need it. Most dogs need to learn how to chill and do nothing rather than half of what the internet tells you to do. And I say that as someone who’s owned working line dogs of various breeds.

You're not wrong about being concerned that GR are often sold as family friendly dogs. In my experience people say Labradors are similarly family friendly without consideration of what the breed is like.

I agree with PP though that to a point you train the dog you want. We set the template for exercise, training, behaviour, socialising and rest time. It's no excuse for not being a decent owner obviously, but I don't think dog ownership is as black and white as some people suggest and you only get to know your dog's temperament when you've got them.

It's freezing cold here today, I'm WFH and mine were very reluctant to have a walk at lunchtime and as soon as we got in they have spent most of their afternoon napping. On another day they'd be happily out for an hour or more. I'm not going to beat myself up that they've not had multiple hours of walks today.

Disagree that 2 hours a day is too much! I do an hour long dog walk minimum every day and then the dogs spend another couple of hours at least following me about tending to livestock etc.

Our neighbour was so inspired by our dogs she ended up getting 2 and they spend 8 hours a day locked in a cage while she’s at work. I find it very distressing. They never ever get a proper walk, just let out into her postage stamp sized garden.

I have a golden that's completely different to yours. He hates going for a walk and has 20 mins down the field chasing a ball before he is ready to come back! Not all dogs are the same and I know ow very few Goldens who have a 2 hour walk everyday. Give her the info, let her make a decision and stay out of it otherwise.

The general advice seems to be walk your dog twice a day, for mental stimulation and exercise, depending on breed. For some smaller breeds once a day is OK and others (like the OP's) need three times a day and at least two hours. I would look askance at an owner that doesn't walk their dog (unless there were underlying issues or it was elderly) - their dog might seem really 'chilled' but is probably bored out of its brains! Most dogs do seem to lie around or sleep during the day (other than very hyper and/or anxious ones) as they have evolved to conserve energy in between hunting or scavenging. I also wouldn't beat myself up if we skipped a day for some reason - although that hasn't ever happened yet. In the Summer we tend to do shorter walks (30-40 minutes) early and late in the day as our dog comes from a colder environment and hates the heat but when it is cooler out we go for two hourish long walks a day (I don't think I am covering 8-10 miles though!) and sometimes she might get a short walk at lunchtime too. She is used to it, loves it, and herds us out at 'walkies' time.

That's heartbreaking @Teddleshon so cruel of your neighbour.

This is what I am worried about.

I don't think she realises what a commitment it could be. She might well end up with a 'lazy' golden...but realistically she won't.

Mine is 'show' lines on both sides so, arguably, should be more docile. He's not. He's not even the most energetic from his litter. So even if she did as PP suggested and got a 'show' line as opposed to a working line, that still isn't a guarantee.

And I don't want a dog to suffer because it's owner didn't really think it through before they got them...and just got it because they had always wanted that breed.