11 year old DS already suspended from secondary

[HistoryT]

DS has ADHD diagnosed about a year ago. He takes 15mg of meds but I'm really not convinced they help. It's difficult because he only takes them on school days and while I do think that in the beginning they helped him stick at a piece of work for longer, I think they may also make him feel more agressive. I'm completely torn over whether to continue with them or stop.

He was bullied in his primary school. He annoys other kids, is immature and tries to get a reaction or 'stimulation' from interactions with other kids. He can also be kind, sweet, full of love and very thoughtful.

Secondary school was good for the first few weeks and now he seems to have got a reputation for being annoying and a bit of a clown and other children are dismissing him, saying derogatory things, putting him down etc. And so his behaviour has deteriorated, I think because he feels bad inside and it comes out as ager. He's extremely reactive and picks fights, hurts other kids. He crossed the line this week by head locking a girl and received a serious sanction, then he went on to do the same thing again a couple of days later. I don't know how to help him and scared he will have to leave his school. Current appraoch is to wrap him up in support and show him we're on his side, here to support, but at the same time his actions are so entirely unacceptable. He can't seem to take responsbilty or stop himself but is remorseful - but then he'll say things that show he believes the only way for him to respond is by being physical and showing others he is stronger than them. For context, he's average to small and defintely one of the shorter ones in his year.

What do we do to help him? Tried counselling but he tells them everything is fine and says he doesn't want to talk to anyone (he opens up to us a little bit but is mostly a ball of frustration and anger). He doesn't behave violently at home.

It’s a small amount, why won’t they up his dose?

Also, as a parent to a child with adhd - and someone who also has it, why not let him have meds on the weekends as well?

get his meds reviewed / changed . My son tried them all before he found what worked for him .
also he may need them 7 days a week. Most people who need medication for an illness don’t pick and choose the days they take it .

Is he definitely taking the meds, do you see him? Do you think he may need a dose increase/change in medication? My DS was less annoying to people when his dose increased.

And yes, meds every day.

My Ds has adhd . If he has had a couple of days off it usually doesn’t work aswell .

get med review .

talk to him at a calm time what could he do differently next time .

meeting with Senco regarding how to support him . It may be walk breaks in lessons , fidget toys, seating position .

Ahh bless him, my sons is year 7 and has autism and even his friends take the piss because he’s not doing well or leaves class to sit in the hub all the time because they know it makes him kick off, he’s finally starting to realise and is falling out with them left right and centre. Thankfully though all the asd kids seem to stick together although sometimes they cause havoc.
It sounds like he needs to channel his energy elsewhere so what do the school have in place for that, as others have suggested a med review could be helpful.

What does he do out of school? It is essential that any child that finds the school day challenging has a positive out let and something they are good at outside of school so their identity isn't just "the naughty/thick/stupid/weird (insert other horrendous name children get called) kid".

Rugby is fantastic as the rules give strong boundaries but the physicality gets the "grrrs" out and can help massively. See If you have a local club near by it fairly inexpensive compared to other extra curricular

He definitely takes them. We started on Equasym 10mg - no real difference. Then up to 20mg Equasym - he said he didn't like how he felt when they wore off. His doctor seems to be quite anti medicating and I get the impression she doesn't feel he needs them. We then tried 15mg medikinet which is the one he's on now. DS isn't going to be receptive to taking a higher dose, and I'm honeslty not convinced they're right for him.

For context I am also diagnosed with ADHD and took 20mg Equasym for a year. I was a machine in terms of work and getting things done, but I lost some of my emotion/empathy and felt detached. I stopped taking them recently and feel more myself, more connected to my family, while also less able to focus and prone to procrastinating and distracting myself with dopamine seeking activities like online shopping instead of sorting admin etc

What do the school have in place, mine has a traffic light card system, so red means leave immediately no questions asked and go to the hub, orange getting frustrated and take 5 mins and green is ok.
they can leave the class whenever they like and go to the hub which is a quiet room where they are given work but it’s laid back sort of like isolation type learning but my son prefers that.
homework is done during RE in the hub so not held back at break times or when he gets home and he leaves every lesson 2 mins early cause he hates crowds

He does 2 sports outside of school and is good at them. We introduced these and keep them up for his self esteem. He does those 3 times a week. He is the annoying one amongst his siblings and I've tried very hard to not give him that 'position' in the family but his siblings are just fed up of him poking, saying things to wind them up. He isn't aggresive though, and would never do at home what he did at school. I am wondering why we don't see the aggresive behaviour at home instead of school, as that's where he should feel more relaxed and able to stop masking. His diagnosis also says he has some autism.

Same for my dd

Does he have support at school from an SSA?

School are offering sessions with Senco to coach appropriate behaviour and m interactions with peers. He does have a couple of lovely friends and interacts with them well, we socialise outside of school too. But then he seems to always be seeking out new people and doesn’t manage to develop deeper friendships

as a parent with adhd herself, and 2 kids with adhd, one medicated/ehcp, and one with neither.. this is my advice, take what you want/need ignore the rest.

Couple of questions first.

Does he have an ehcp?
Do you have any kind of interaction with the SENCo or Pastoral team at the school?
Is he struggling with any kind of sensory overload?
If he is being picked on, has that been addressed by the school?

Therapy may not be the right move, it may be worth more talking about CBT to help him with controlling his emotions.

I have recently had to sit down with my dd (no ehcp and unmedicated) school because her ADHD is now causing her issues in yr10, there's been some outbursts, swearing, lack of focus. Some of it was down to other kids behaviour towards her, i have addressed that with the school and got them onto dealing with one student who thinks its amusing to pick on dd/make fun of her, and i have KEPT at it until it was dealt with to a point DD feels happy.
DD also has access to a 'time out' card and loop earplugs, so if she is feeling overwhelmed by noise, can exit the class 5 mins early to avoid the corridor rush, but it also allows her 5 minutes outside the classroom if she needs it to collect herself if something is upsetting her.
She also has free access to the Pastoral area at break times and during lessons if she feels she needs it.

I really recommend the book ‘finally focused’ by Dr Greenblatt. You can find it on Amazon. He explains about the adhd brain and nutritional factors. For example, people with adhd often have low magnesium levels, low zinc. It gives dosages for different age groups.

School think an older child as a mentor could be good too.

You can't have "some autism" you either are or are not so I would chase that up, it's not unusual for traits to become more blatant on the transition to secondary school.

It might help to watch the Chimp Paradox cartoon videos on YouTube.

He will have reacted like that as he lost control and his behaviour escalated. It happens, he won't be the only year 7 it happens to either. Quite often the quirky children band together and are incredibly supportive of each other so getting him in tha friendship group would be good although unfortunately tends to be a group that attracts bullys but they tend to deal with it better together

I’ll read Finally Focussed. I’m reading Scattered Minds by Gabor Mate at the moment. The trauma reasoning - DS did have less of my time and attention as a baby due to family circumstances but I feel we’ve been very focused on him for the last 3 years

Oh OP I really feel for you! DS (15) has ASD and ADHD and we had this all through primary. I chose not to give him meds (very conflicting feelings on this, so many pros and cons) but although we had numerous issues and incidents we managed, and he did seem to improve towards the end of primary.

He has always been very reactive, and when younger that moved from biting, to spitting (??), to throwing furniture, to waving a metal scooter at a child's head and only just missing! It's a permanent worry.

But I have to say, things did improve massively once he went to secondary. Maybe not in Year 7, where we did have quite a few physical incidents (and then 2 years of mostly lockdown) but from year 9 onwards he has honestly been so much better. My sister's boy has the same diagnoses and she told me the same a few years earlier - but it is true. They do start to copy their peers and begin to understand what is and is not OK. Maybe later than NT children, and not 100% reliably (which kids are?) - but I really do think things will improve.

DS still struggles socially and is seen by most as 'weird' and 'annoying' - if not bullied as such, other kids are mean to him and take the mickey, he finds social times hard. He puts up with so much - and tries so hard to be nice, it breaks my heart. It's not easy being a Mum to ND child.....

But I do think most of them (can't generalise of course) do mature hugely during their teens. Try to keep positive - and good luck!!

Thanks for all the replies. We will give the medication one last shot - 2 weeks of taking every single day including week ends.it is a low dose but doctor says she would not prescribe more than 20mg at his age/weight anyway. And when I’ve increased my dose it’s horrible - headaches and I feel awful. Maybe we’re both quite sensitive to the meds.

From who exactly did your son receive a diagnosis of "some autism"?

His autism is not acute. In the doctor’s words, it’s mild

I’m just so reluctant about trialling different medications . I know how that sounds but it’s so much to put him through, especially if some make him feel worse.

I think I'd be reporting the doctor.

There is no "mild" or acute autism.

You're either autistic or you're not.

You may be fortunate as a person to have low support needs throughout your life with no observable learning disabilities, but many people with autism have fluctuating needs and can be high needs in different intervals of life.

Every one can also have autistic traits without being autistic but that's because autistic traits are simply human traits, however when you have autism these traits are debilitating and disabling which is when it is diagnosed.

A bit like saying every one urinates, but when you urinate frequently and to the detriment of the rest of your day, you may have a urinary disorder.

However I have also tried different medications and found some to give me headaches and horrible side effects when off, and others to be absolutely wonderful and productive, whilst being gentle.

I think it's worth trying another medication.