To think it's not a foregone conclusion that Labour will win the next election?

[flashbac]

I am seeing things here and there predicting Keir Starmer being our next prime minister etc, as if its already been decided.

I won't be voting for them under Keir that's for sure. Their stance on Gaza is the straw that broke the camel's back. I don't care if the Tories get in again. I am so disenfranchised I dont give a shit and at least with the Tories its "better the devil you know" and not Labour pretending they give a shit about people/human rights.

our Labour candidate is illiterate.

Of course they’re not. What an absurd contention.

I am in my mid 20s and I also work in politics, and to be honest I won't be voting I don't think maybe I'll vote greens, but having work with starmer's team, there is a disconnect between his advisors and the ministers and Keir, politics is centred around, helping the old and elderly and not the young and until that changes society will always be fucked in my opinion

The key word here is 'relatively.'

@Blossomtoes then he needs to be more involved in the proofing of all his campaign materials as they reflect very poorly on him. One or two typos maybe but incomprehensible sentences full of typos and lacking basic grammar in every leaflet is not going to win my vote. I’ve also heard him speak at previous hustings. He makes the conservative guy look good (and he’s an awful, vile human being).

A person can be openly gay in Israel, and they dont have the same freedom in many other states in the Middle East. Look at the refugee stats, being gay is considered reasonable grounds for seeking asylum in Europe.

Andy Street v. Andy Burnham would be interesting.

It would.

The people saying Cameron may be Tory leader before the next election are mad, while theoretically possible to be PM from the Lord's in the real world is is impossible. Could not become an MP in time (and why would Sunak make this easy for him anyway) let alone not many of the MPs in his party would select him.

Never, ever underestimate the ability of the left wing of the Labour Party to screw things up and hand victory to the Tories on a plate. They did it twice in 2017 and 2019 and could very easily make it a hat-trick.

There is a whole generation of voters who will be casting their votes for the first/ 2nd time.

In my house- ds1, had his university education fucked up by the government's badly thought through, unconsidered response to covid when they introduced lock downs. I'm sure we all remember the reports of students being locked up like prisoners, not allowed to leave their flats.

Ds2- started his first job after he left the army, worked for a morning before being told they would have to let him go as they were having to shut the business due to the covid emergency. At that point they didn't know if it would be permanent or temporary.

Dd- she was in her gcse years when school closed and her education was seriously disrupted. She sat her first proper exam at a level, which is far from ideal, and many of her peers struggled. The impact on their mental health has been immense.

My fledgling business closed after Sunak excluded me from any support- £150 a week would have kept it going, I should have started a ppe business like baroness Mone.

I'd rather take my chances with the devil than see this lot returned to government, and I'm pretty certain that Labour isn't the devil.

This government and those that have supported them, have no respect for the electorate and the people they serve. They are either lazy and incompetent at best, or thieves at worst. They are made up of sexual predators, law breakers, liars. They think they are above the law and the whole lot can get to fuck as far as I'm concerned and take their divisive prejudices with them.

They didn’t do it in 2017. May was dependent on the DUP to scrape a majority.

Yes, I have voted Labour and really want to again this time but just cant. and of course it matters whether I have or havent. you do realise that if everyone just votes the same way as they voted last time Labour will lose dont you? thats how it works in elections. if you want to win them you have to persuade those people who didnt vote for you last time to vote for you this time. This is just the sort of attitude that will lose Labour the next election and the tories have literally handed it to them on a plate.

Blair courted Murdoch and got the SUN on Labours side, it was a huge factor in Blairs landslide, hardly pointless.

Starmer is also keen to promote Labour in the more Tory press.

the fact is, in order to recognise the issues, it has to be acknowledged and the 'press have and still do, give Labour a much harder time than they do the Tories.

Starmer and his donkey field or Miliband and how he eats a burger, Abbott and Police numbers.

Do we get similar with Tory millionaires? Boris at the Cenotaph? or Sunak and his giant plane? can't fill up a car or use a hammer? nope.

Expect both parties to begin by promising free money and an economic plan.
Labour may or may not sabotage itself with some abstract wokery. Like they did last time.
The majority of people don't care for micro issues. They care about personality and economics.

That's because the young don't vote and the elderly do - in droves.

On Labour's side the SNP vote in Scotland is falling apart opening up the possibility of regaining lots of seats there.

I think this will be key - Labour needs Scotland and in recent elections the SNP has taken a lot of the votes that would otherwise have gone to Labour. I think next year a lot of those voters will return to Labour.

Andy Burnham can’t keep London’s name out of his mouth. Everything is ‘that London’s’ fault. He’s always playing to the London hater crowd. too divisive. So it’s a massive no from me. A PM needs to at least try to govern for the whole country, not keeping bashing parts of it.

Agree on this, too obsessive about it

What heck is "abstract Wokery" ? Labour lost because of a never ending Brexit & people believed Boris, thats all the 2019 GE was about.

Bear in mind, BJ got just 1% more of the vote than May did but instead of a minority Govt, he got an 80 seat majority.

But if the next GE is going to be on the economy, then what exactly have the Tories done over the last 13 years that impresses?

Well, the same reasons Cameron wont be Tory leader apply to Burnham & Labour - he isn't an MP, not enough time to become one and there isn't the desire to change either leader atm.

Whoever loses the next GE, then will change leader.

I don't like Burnham, he was a shit Health Minister and whilst NHS dentistry is non-existent right now, it also wasn't brilliant under his watch either.

He's the mayor of Manchester - it goes with the territory, surely?

Of course it does. His entire raison d’etre is champion of the north.

Are you saying 'better the devil you know', as in you know the tories don't care about human rights so you will vote for them anyway. So just stick with a party that have over 13 years to improve things but haven't. Oh my.

Throwhandsupintheair · Today 08:11

Andy Burnham can’t keep London’s name out of his mouth. Everything is ‘that London’s’ fault. He’s always playing to the London hater crowd. too divisive. So it’s a massive no from me. A PM needs to at least try to govern for the whole country, not keeping bashing parts of it*

He’s right though. I live in the north. We don’t even have a functioning train service. We live in a country where most of it is ignored and disregarded except for the SE bit.

I want Andy Burnham for pm. It’s about time some fought for the neglected parts of the country.

But if the next GE is going to be on the economy, then what exactly have the Tories done over the last 13 years that impresses?

This is why I think Labour will probably win. People are poorer than they were 13 years ago - mortgages and rents have gone up, bills have gone up, food prices have gone up. On top of that, people can't find an NHS dentist, it's hard to see a doctor, schools and public services are worse, housing is hard to find, and Brexit has made things worse instead of better. So people want change - and in both England and Scotland that means Labour.