to feel concerned about coming back to live in the U.K.

[tropicaltailwind]

I’m an expat. I left the U.K. in 2011. I go back every year to see family and friends. I keep up with British news and politics. I still think of Britain as my ancestral home. And I’m planning to come back, probably within four years.

I am worried about the Britain I’m bringing my family back to. The NHS under severe strain, crumbling social services, cost of living, shit in the rivers and sea, the rise of hard right politics. Do you think life in Britain has changed significantly in the last dozen years? Am I BU to worry about coming home?

Yes, things have changed a lot over the last 10-20 years.

Roads are terrible, you can wait almost a day for an ambulance (then have a terrible time in hospital), wait 6 weeks for a GP appointment, lots of people can't get a dentist.

Public transport is pretty bad (unreliable, understaffed and lots of strikes).

Lots of homeless people sleeping in empty shop doorways.

Lots of the big shops have closed down. Police don't bother investigating or turning up for a lot of crime.

The cost of everything is going up and a lot of people can't afford to live!

Everything has gone downhill.

@Torganer

Any chance you could hint at where you live?

I live in C Lon and it's a sh*thole nowadays. It's never been so crowded, noisy, hostile, dirty, expensive, the air is filthy. People are miserable, uptight, anxious and self-centred ever since covid. There's an air of constant tension and agitation. Nobody I know can get a dentist for love nor money, our GPs are horrific, all they want to do is 'gatekeep' and I've started to suspect they're on a reward system where they get paid every time a patient leaves the appointment and they've done a flat nothing. The NHS is dire, the hospitals are dire, they're getting bad CQC reports. Crime is ludicrous. Commuting is crap and tense. Homelessness is peak. Oh yeah and dogs, everyone's got dogs now. Even the shops are crap now, half of the high street is kingdom of sweets stores LOL. I want out!

To the OP, if I had the chance I'd be long gone out of this miserable country. Sadly I don't have any choice as I'm British and don't have any other passport or nationality.

Aww small world! I’ve lived just outside London for the better part of 20 years although I did go home to Cayman between 2007-2011. I miss it so much but I bet it’s unrecognisable to me now…

I do feel for the OP because being an expat can be hard. I miss home but we are fairly settled here in the UK despite the not so great things sometimes, I would still rather be here for now while the kids are finishing school etc. I try not to get lulled into a grass is greener on the other side mentality because I think every country has its issues.

I wondered if the OP was in Bermuda. I worked there for 10 years as an expat, back in the UK for 20 years now. For me the move back was "when" not "if", so it was all about timing - and reasons of education for my DD, elderly relatives, buying property rather than renting, getting back into the London workforce in my case. I hated the first year back but I wasn't keen on my first year overseas either, so I guess I'm just not great with change. Wouldn't have it any other way now though.

@ChickaboomZoom my family are now in West Sussex (Horsham), but we lived close to Wimbledon 😁

Every time I come back now I am wearing rose tinted glasses. I get to wander through the city doing fun touristy things with my kids, showing my old stomping grounds, going to the theatre and adventure activities like Chessington/Go Ape etc. I miss the Uk immensely although I think it's helped by the fact that I've had amazing weather each time I come (luck of the gods apparently).

It's hard now because the kids are heading into teen years and there's not much here in Cayman to keep them occupied. Whenever we're back in the UK the first thing they want to do is going to a park or a farm. Like toddlers 😂

Cayman is unrecognizable now. I arrived in 2007 and the changes even in the last 5 years have been vast. It has lost so much of its charm, the beach is still beautiful but practically non-existent due to erosion, and there are pretentious Instagram hotels popping up all over the place. But still we love it...

The NHS under severe strain, crumbling social services, cost of living, shit in the rivers and sea, the rise of hard right politics

So.. where OP lives there's no environmental degradation, no social inequality, cheap accessible public services, and great democracy. Right?

To what extent are the issues faced by the UK shared by other countries too? We will all have seen what’s gone on in Ireland the last few days, and the result of the election in the Netherlands.

I think it depends on so many factors. Racism impact is all, but more so if you are a person of colour.
also, if you have a very high and the cost of living might not impact you as much.

it is very varied and depends on each individuals circumstances I think

Not if it's temporary. Emigration refers to moving location permanently. Expat is when your right to remain in the new country is dependent on your current job

I wouldn't bother, the whole place is being left to rot, they couldn't care less about us, the streets are rotten, there's illegals sleeping everywhere, people are living in poverty and rents are crazy, more people rely on food banks, hardly any banks on the high street, shops are closing everywhere, I'd stay were I was if I were you.
They couldn't run a country here if their lives depended on it, instead of given millions to France who do nothing for the money, put it into the NHS and back into building up your own economy. You're better off were you are.

Every country has its pros and cons. It’s easier to think the grass is greener elsewhere. The NHS is variable but not as bad as you read in the papers. I’ve lived all over the world but, despite its shortcomings, I love the UK best.

Thanks for all the messages. Lots of think about and I really appreciate the time taken to share views.
I’m in a British overseas territory but don’t want to say which one as people are terrible gossips and I don’t want folks here to work out that we might be leaving yet.
I don’t read the Mail, lol, it’s awful and getting worse. I keep up with news from BBC, C4, Guardian, and my friends and family in the U.K. Friends and fam want us to come back which is why I wanted to survey unbiased views on MN.

The state of healthcare, democracy, environment in my current location isn’t the post here: DH and I are here to work and as expats, we are guests. Drawing me back to to the U.K. is aging parents, time with siblings and cousins, and DS wanting to take A levels and go to Uni (DS is 13 so still some time but we’d need to move when he’s 16 to access 6th form college).

Life where we are is VERY expensive and not much for teens to do. We are a part of the island community -our friends are mostly locals and long term expats. I want to be clear eyed about what life will be like if we return. Does the country I grew up in and left aged 39 still feel the same or has Brexit, Covid, austerity, etc changed it a lot?

I have lived and worked in other countries before I was married. I left the U.K. a with a newborn baby and would be coming back parent of a teen. I need to think about DS future - he grew up an island child, he has a U.K. passport. I want to think about his future. I appreciate all the insights. Thank you again .

@tropicaltailwind there was a thread on here the other day = someone wanting to move from London but to a location with a good standard of living, healthy creative vibe and progressive schools etc.

Anyway there was much input but I did notice Norwich recommended many times. I've never been to Norwich (wasn't even sure where it was) but when I researched, it does sound like a lovely place with many great points and also beautiful landscape / geography. Since you mention that you'd maybe relocate to Norwich, then perhaps this is a happy coincidence? Living somewhere affordable in the UK with a decent standard of living and interesting population has got to be better than, say, the increasing drudgery and failings of London.

Not dissimilar to you @tropicaltailwind although we have moved around lots. I have seen changes in most countries we've lived in after we've left. No where seems to be immune from many of the issues currently faced by many in the UK. The UK is very very UK centric. Most people have no idea what it's like to live in other countries or the challenges living away can bring. I think you just have to make your own call and have faith that at the time you made the best decision for your circumstances with the facts available at the time. Hindsight is a wonderful thing which sadly none of us possess.

Just a point re your DS - if uni in the UK is in the future the only way to guarantee both home status & student finance is 3 years residency so that means whole family moving back (can't be just child for educational purposes) either to start GCSE's in Y10 or for sixth form but would need a gap year. There are lots of examples of Home Status for expats but it's getting harder and there are no guarantees. Student Finance is a separate process and even those expats who get Home status don't always get loans.

I love Norwich and would love to live there if I could. It's just so nice.

I feel deeply depressed at the state of the UK. The government has gone a bit bonkers and the voting system doesn't work to let us kick them out. It also doesn't allow us meaningful control to save the NHS and school.

The austerity was awful and now the covid has bankrupted us, and brexit has made us look like awful xenophobes, while in reality I think the government were just being useless about managing our membership of the EU.

However, I would overlook that for the loveliness of living in Norwich. I would absolutely 100% move from a tropical island to Norwich and no questions asked.

Norwich and Norfolk - you’ll be fine. You won’t get an NHS dentist, but otherwise it’s lovely.

Getting news from The Guardian is similar to getting it from the Daily Mail, neither is a good source.

There's no real far right to the politics in the UK. One benefit of first-past-the-post is that it keeps the fruitloops out.

Even if everything was good in this country, coming back is a major adjustment. Hope it all works out for you, I can understand given the age of your DS.

If you are to live in Norwich, the football team is about where they were when you left, I think. Still largely owned by Delia Smith as well.

Where do you live in central London @JFT ? That’s not my experience of most of central london at all. There are the grimier bits mostly ec postcodes but they are fashionably grimy ime.

And yes Norwich is nice

Do you think life in Britain has changed significantly in the last dozen years?
For MC professionals and others with decent-high salaries, no, but I think if you're at the lower end of the economic spectrum then yes. It doesn't sound like you will be in that group. The cost of living is higher than it was 12 years ago - mortgages are harder to get and more expensive, bills are higher, food costs are higher, fuel and heating costs are higher, taxes are higher, but if you earn a decent wage you'd shouldn't find this is a huge issue. You may need to register with a private dentist, as there aren't enough NHS dentists to go round. There are lots of scare stories about the NHS, but I don't personally know anyone who's suffered from substandard care (and much of my family is in the area you'll be moving to).

Am I BU to worry about coming home?
Yes. I mean I don't blame you for worrying, because from the stories the newspapers publish you'd think that we're all living in some impoverished hell hole, but very little has changed for my friends/family/wider community (I live in a 'naice' area of southern England).

Re: the hard right - it looks like we've VERY likely to get a Labour govt at some point next year - bucking the European trend towards more right govts. We've had right govt for the past several years and our pendulum now seems to be about to swing the other way.

I'd much rather live in Norwich than Cambridge, despite Norfolk being a bit out on a limb. The traffic in Cambridge has always been bad, but it's absolutely terrible now. I know it's got worse everywhere, inc. Norwich/north Norfolk, but it took me an hour to get out of Cambridge of Fri evening and they have a good park and ride system, which was brought in to try and manage the terrible traffic. If the OP's family is in Norfolk there is no reason to move to Cambridge.

I also don't live in the uk

Honestly is there anywhere else you would like to live? Everytime I go back to visit. I'm utterly shocked.

I am currently undergoing a serious health concern and my treatment in my adopted country is quick and modern. My mum has a similar health problem in the uk . I'm sickened at the differences in our care (and frankly worried for my mum)

I understand that island living may not be for you now but anywhere else abroad may be better for your children and yourselves (if its doable , I know it's way more difficult post brexit) everywhere has international schools so your children can still do British A levels