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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to feel concerned about coming back to live in the U.K.

114 replies

tropicaltailwind · 25/11/2023 17:03

I’m an expat. I left the U.K. in 2011. I go back every year to see family and friends. I keep up with British news and politics. I still think of Britain as my ancestral home. And I’m planning to come back, probably within four years.

I am worried about the Britain I’m bringing my family back to. The NHS under severe strain, crumbling social services, cost of living, shit in the rivers and sea, the rise of hard right politics. Do you think life in Britain has changed significantly in the last dozen years? Am I BU to worry about coming home?

OP posts:
Crispedia · 25/11/2023 19:12

EasternStandard · 25/11/2023 19:06

Tbf we have private healthcare through work and hardly use it, NHS has been fine

V good to hear.

AgnesX · 25/11/2023 19:13

Over a decade, nearly a generation has passed "home" isn't going to be how you remember it.

Is it worth coming back to? Well, it depends what you're leaving and a whole range of life factors.

Look at where you want to relocate to, housing, schooling, your income, your values and consider what you want.

TheCatfordCat · 25/11/2023 19:17

We're having to find the money for private mental health care for our teenager because the waiting list for CAMHS is 27 months but our child is 18 in 9 months...

So there's that.

Stay where you are for now. Keep yourself posted on how things go over the next maybe two years.

lkwhjis · 25/11/2023 19:18

Stay away. Most of the UK now looks and feels like a third world hellhole.

nameychanger5678 · 25/11/2023 19:20

I’m a Brit living overseas, I came back to my lovely home village in the uk and then moved away again. Why, apart from the grey sky and the tories?

Massive, ugly housing estates built in every possible gap, between beautiful villages, on the outskirts of towns, wrecking the architecture and beauty of the land.

People. People everywhere. Everything is packed. Cars everywhere. Flash cars nobody can truly afford, tacky personalised number plates, with aggressive men driving them. Instagram houses - people spending what little money they have on grey interiors to put on Instagram. Or doing up their open kitchen with the same lights and stools everyone else has. With the same front door.

It just isn’t what it once was. It breaks my heart.

User17239509 · 25/11/2023 19:23

Yes, you have to have a kitchen that looks like an operating theatre, with three lights over the 'operating table' but you could probably live with that

Whiterose23 · 25/11/2023 19:24

We live in the East of England and have a lovely lifestyle.
We do have private health and dental care but so far have only used the dental plans. Any other health issues have been dealt with in a timely manner by the NHS.

Torganer · 25/11/2023 19:26

First I would stop reading the Daily Mail!!

It’s not like this where I live in London. I have an NHS dentist, excellent NHS doctor and hospital service, and the Thames will be cleaner than ever when the Thames Tideway Tunnel is finished. Trains run on time, tube and busses are amazing, and my local area has a great sense of community.

theduchessofspork · 25/11/2023 19:27

Nomnomnom66 · 25/11/2023 17:45

Expat - you mean an emigrant

Ex pat is a catch all term that includes people who are living and working somewhere temporarily, as well as long term emigrants.

Anyway, if you are living in (say) the Virgin Islands Op, then the chances are a returning to the UK is going to be a better long term option.

As PP says, the truth is somewhere in the middle of the views you hear. The rise of the right is everywhere, and actually less bad in the UK than other places. Public services are in desperate need of investment, but are probably better than where you are. The National mood is poor - but then it’s also pretty awful in (say) the
US. Most people who are really really critical of the UK haven’t had a lot of experience of how tough a lot of the rest of the world is - including a lot of wealthy countries.

You might be better to rent till you know where you want to be though. Norfolk can be lovely but it’s a long way from anywhere

theduchessofspork · 25/11/2023 19:28

lkwhjis · 25/11/2023 19:18

Stay away. Most of the UK now looks and feels like a third world hellhole.

Where else have you lived?

bombastix · 25/11/2023 19:35

nameychanger5678 · 25/11/2023 19:20

I’m a Brit living overseas, I came back to my lovely home village in the uk and then moved away again. Why, apart from the grey sky and the tories?

Massive, ugly housing estates built in every possible gap, between beautiful villages, on the outskirts of towns, wrecking the architecture and beauty of the land.

People. People everywhere. Everything is packed. Cars everywhere. Flash cars nobody can truly afford, tacky personalised number plates, with aggressive men driving them. Instagram houses - people spending what little money they have on grey interiors to put on Instagram. Or doing up their open kitchen with the same lights and stools everyone else has. With the same front door.

It just isn’t what it once was. It breaks my heart.

I have to say the poor interior decoration choices of some and ridiculous cars on the never never are probably one of those things that are easily avoided!

Hovella · 25/11/2023 19:38

I live in Norfolk. I think it’s generally great and a lot less traffic-choked/packed with people than other parts of England. Still good value for money property wise compared to the south east or Cambridge. Lovely coast etc. I disagree with a pp and think there are some excellent secondary schools and particularly good sixth forms, although you do have to choose carefully. But the downsides are that you can’t get an NHS dentist and Norwich is generally looking rougher than it did 10 years ago. More drugs, homeless people etc.

I have lived in other countries and although quality of life has got worse here, unfortunately I think that’s true of many countries, particularly in Europe.

Konfetka · 25/11/2023 19:42

Strokethefurrywall · 25/11/2023 18:09

Are you in Cayman Op?

I'm guessing Grand Bahama.

Op, I can see why you want to make the move but I suspect you'd regret it.

ChickaboomZoom · 25/11/2023 19:55

Strokethefurrywall · 25/11/2023 18:09

Are you in Cayman Op?

Snap… I wanted to ask this too as that’s where I’m from originally but live in the UK now

Crikeyalmighty · 25/11/2023 19:59

@Crispedia Copenhagen was great thanks- we came back mainly for elderly relative reasons plus partly work - we had to come back to uk regularly and post Brexit, flight prices doubled and availability halved- really liked Copenhagen, efficient, clean, fun vibe- nice in winter and summer, I will say though the Danes are hardball on non EU citizens (despite the fact we moved during withdrawal agreement phase.you need quite a lot of money in your account if you aren't working for a Danish company and it's high on beurocracy - House rental deposits are 3 months- plus no tenancy deposit scheme and you have to hand back in a fully renovated condition (striped floors, newly painted etc) or you will lose most of your deposit- lifestyle great- but other things - er not so much!! Sweden has a much lighter touch by the way and much lower deposits-

jfoyo26 · 25/11/2023 20:09

We very recently moved back from the USA. We moved back to a more affluent area than where we are originally from and love it, there is a lot going on in our community but most of it is volunteer lead! The council seems more of a hindrance than a help most the time and are struggling to keep the most basic amenities functioning well - they just removed half the bins in our area and replaced them with giant ones to save money on bin bags 😂! We purposefully moved to an area with good schools, I like the small community feel of the schools here and low gun crime but certainly in our school the tech is WAYYY behind even the underfunded US public schools - other areas of teaching much better though. The NHS has not been as bad as I expected, but we have private health and dental and I would not have been comfortable making the move without it. I think if you are doing ok financially life here is still good, there is so much culturally we are enjoying about being home - after a decade that doesn't feel too different. The US is soooo affluent and the UK definitely feels A LOT poorer though. P.S: we lived somewhere warm and sunny in the States and I would say the winter weather is the most miserable aspect of living here. If you can get over that, the rest will be plain sailing.

Wonderlot · 25/11/2023 20:12

Day to day it really isn’t that bad for the majority of people. The press (and mumsnet) like to catastrophize

Bethebest · 25/11/2023 20:21

Hovella which secondary schools would you recommend in Norfolk please? Thanks so much

Peablockfeathers · 25/11/2023 20:24

lkwhjis · 25/11/2023 19:18

Stay away. Most of the UK now looks and feels like a third world hellhole.

No it doesn't, super ignorant.

belladonna22 · 25/11/2023 20:32

Short answer: no, you are not being unreasonable to worry about it.

Long answer: it depends. As many people have pointed out, life is certainly better here than many other places in the world. But presumably you're not deciding between the UK and somewhere worse, you might have the choice of different high income countries. We also have the same privilege (husband is British, I am not, we have the ability to live and work multiple places and are therefore weighing up our own options). Most commenters here have probably never lived outside the UK and never will. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, but their comments that it's fine aren't really helpful to you in your situation.

As others have said, if you have the resources to live in a good area with good schools and nice families, you can have a pleasant existence. If you have private health care, you can insulate yourself from some of the issues with the NHS.

But what I keep thinking about is my children's future, and what this country will look like in 10, 20, 30 years.

I look at how the education system is a mess, how we have lots of graduates with degrees that are not serving them well in the job market, while at the same time there are labour shortages in other critical areas (medicine, engineering) which mean we need to keep bringing in lots of immigrants. Obviously I'm not bothered by immigration, but high levels of immigration have had a materially deleterious effect on this country's politics!

Outside of unis, we seem to be doing a terrible job of getting young people into trades and other non-academic life paths, leaving many of them adrift and resigned to a life of low-quality, low-security, low-wage work.

Underfunding of everything pervades and undercuts all the public services in ways that intersect and multiply. Underfunded councils don't have the resources to put children with SEN into the settings they need, so they end up in underfunded mainstream schools which don't have the resources or staff to support them to learn properly. These kids often end up disrupting the classes (not their fault, mind you!) which then negatively impacts others around them. This happens day in, day out in so many schools across the country, year after year. So we're ending up with one group of kids not receiving the education they deserve because their needs are unmet, and another group also not getting the education they deserve because the limited teacher time and resources are disproportionately spent managing the behavior of a small group.

So I wonder: when these kids are in their 20s, 30s, 40s, what will the workforce look like? Who is going to be doing the high skill jobs of the future? Or will many Brits be consigned to a grim life while immigrants will come in, do the high wage jobs and pay the taxes that native Brits will live off via benefits (which already kind of happens already). Again, I'm very pro-immigration, but it feels so depressing if it's occurring because we're just not educating British children properly to begin with.

Sure, we can privately educate, and live in our middle class enclave, and try to insulate ourselves, but I'd rather live in a society where the median person is successful, rather than a place with high and rising inequality where I waste my children's childhoods worrying whether I've done enough to ensure their future success.

Anyway, as you can see I've thought about this rather a lot 🤣

Best of luck to you!

Strokethefurrywall · 25/11/2023 20:38

@ChickaboomZoom I'm a Londoner but live in Cayman now! Have been here for over 16 years...

Takenwithtea · 25/11/2023 20:44

It's horrifying. Nothing that wasn't entirely predictable and expected when the Conservatives came in in 2008, but there was hope that it wouldn't get so very bad.

If you're not very rich,life can be very, very frightening right now. If you have alternatives for your child I'd go with those, or at least keep your options open so the move can be temporary or you can travel for healthcare, university, etc. if needed.

Crikeyalmighty · 25/11/2023 20:48

@belladonna22 interesting and thoughtful post and I agree with you. To some extent you can be slightly insulated here by simply paying over the odds and living in a nice but expensive area- there is no doubt in my opinion that whilst not perfect these areas have got better resources because other similar people also want to live in those areas - so I was impressed with the quality of the medical staff at our hospital , the schools are good because good teachers want to live there- it's easy to think itsall fine and rosy - just with potholes and not enough social housing - because our small city is busy, vibrant and still has lots going for it. Travel around as we do for work etc when touring and you get to see that some places really are struggling badly, I wouldn't rush to go in at all to very many town centres- many places are bordering on desolate. I also had the misfortune to have to use an A&E in a not great area and it was not good. Dirty,fights in the car park - just felt third world.

It's totally true about young people and trades and this is one area the Tory's have been very poor in defunding FE to such an extent. Look at the Germans and Dutch they have practical skills pathways in schools from about 14 for those who want to go in that direction.

DryIce · 25/11/2023 20:57

I'm not from the UK and I moved here 13 years ago. In my view it has massively deteriorated and i don't think I would make the same decision now.

Obviously for me it's different, now I have children and am settled. We are fairly well off and can insulate ourselves from some of the issues.

But it feels like a very different place to me from the one I moved to. The future does not seem optimistic, and if I were in my prior position and had options of places to move, I would not now choose the UK

beachcitygirl · 25/11/2023 21:01

If you were coming to Scotland, I wouldn't worry. England, not so much. I'm not saying that to be toady, just much better schooling & NHS (still far from perfect obvs)
Not the same level of anti-immigration rhetoric, much much much less Tories, a more progressive society, more space, free public transport for kids, free uni tuition, bedroom tax not payable, free prescriptions, state schools good. None of these mental schools with hitleresque headteachers.

Money goes a long way in housing market. Gorgeous beaches.
Shit weather tho - that can't be got away from.