To object to this punishment ?

[School99]

My son is doing his GCSEs at local secondary school. They give lunchtime / break time / afterschool detentions for misbehaviour (ranging from not wearing a tie to constantly talking /disrupting class) which I support.
They also do a thing called internal exclusion which is where pupil has to sit in a different room all day with no lessons and nothing to do. My son has been told he has to do this on Monday for what I think is not a serious offence. Apart from thinking the punishment is not appropriate for the crime, I actually think this punishment is not at all appropriate in any circumstances- surely missing out on lessons when doing GCSEs is just setting them up to fail ? How is that teaching them to behave according to the school rules ?? I would object less if they were isolated but got their normal work given to them but they don’t even do that. I’m not really happy about the punishment - is this standard across all secondary schools ? I’m thinking of contacting the school to voice my views/objections but not sure if there’s any point ??

As I said before between years 7-10 kids get all the guidance they kids concerning disruptive behaviour, if they are still disruptive by year 11 the teachers quiet rightly need them removing so they can concentrate on the rest of the class.

Of course he'll be doing work.

What was the offence that you don't agree that this is an appropriate punishment for?

If it was really minor I expect you would have said what the issue was. It can also be the straw that breaks the camels' back. If you think he's being treated unfairly ask them for a meeting and maybe to wait until the meeting before the punishment is carried out. But if he's been bad you do him more favours backing school up. Remember you are only hearing his side. And if he is a prat in class and isn't focusing a day out of class and you backing school up may make the rest of his GCSE course way more effective than it might have otherwise been if he keeps behaving badly, even at a low level. If he is disrupting other's learning even more reason to keep him out of class for a day.

@School99 what did he say he did? Did he tell you or school tell you? Just interested to know what is considered not serious.

In DD3's school it's called the 'hub'. 'Hubbed' students are contained in a static unit and copy text from random textbooks. They sit in silence and are not allowed to look at other students. They are escorted for their lunch after other pupils have returned from lunch to their classes.

A hub period is one full day. So if they are given a red card in period 5, they would spend period 5,6 of the first day and periods 1,2,3,4 of the following day in the hub.

DD3's school have a 2-strike policy on low level disruption. Their name is written on the board if they are disruptive (including dropping pens, rocking on chairs, etc) then Hubbed after that.

I'm not sure that it's effective. I am regularly at the school and see at least 15-20 kids with red cards at registration time. They have an R&R space for the kids who are too disruptive for 'don't cope' with the hub and they are often mixed with the kids who can't cope with classes and aren't disruptive. It makes kids with SEN very uncomfortable and they often end up refusing to go there.

EarringsandLipstick, if your child was on the receiving end of bullying I think you'd be pretty quick to support inclusion.

DD3's school have a 2-strike policy on low level disruption. Their name is written on the board if they are disruptive (including dropping pens, rocking on chairs, etc) then Hubbed after that.

Thanks for explaining the system.

That's awful. When PP spoke of disruption I expected it on a much more significant level and understood.

This is annoying behaviour of course - in my DC's school this merits 'points' on their online system that parents can see. Most parents check this & don't like seeing the 'points' & address with their DC.

The school will follow up with further consequences if it continues, including contacting the parents.

I cannot see how a day in silence, in solitary conditions, addresses this kind of behaviour.

Most likely the kids who engage in low-level disruption will respond poorly, rather than with maturity or a depth of understanding, to this punishment.

There are now some quite strict rules around the use of removal or isolation which many schools don't follow - https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/651d42d86a6955001278b2af/Behaviour_in_schools_guidance.pdf

Have a look and ask some detailed questions about what they are doing to comply, including asking for copies of the relevant statistics.

Except a PP's example is not anything to do with bullying?

If bullying was involved it's exclusion I'd seek, rather than this practice.

It doesn't. Reading this thread, I remember getting this as punishment. It was just an inconvenience, did nothing for my behaviour. We thought it was funny. People would get hall passes and come and see you.

What did he do ?
Yes he will get work.
I suggest you ask if he can also take his revision folder.
He has the chance to do lots of work in complete silence. Why would this be setting him up to fail??

He will get work, for sure.

What did he do?
What punishment do you think he should get?

It's not inclusion though, is it? That's a word that is used to make it sound better than 'internal exclusion'.

My issue is that most of the kids that are 'included' will have additional needs of some sort. They just don't display them in a socially acceptable way.

The kids who make a genuine mistake, get Hubbed and never get Hubbed again, didn't need to be Hubbed in the first place and a 1 hour detention would have got the message across in the first place. The kids who are repeatedly Hubbed are the kids who have very little control over their behaviour, and no amount of 'inclusion' is going to change that.

My issue is that most of the kids that are 'included' will have additional needs of some sort. They just don't display them in a socially acceptable way.

That was my thought, too.

The disruptive kids in my DC schools fit this category. My experience is the teachers manage it well, with some latitude and some consequences and a great deal of care. The other students too seem to have some understanding.

However, these students are in the minority, and I recognise if there were many more, trying to teach might be impossible.

Again, from an outside perspective, the pressures on teachers in the UK (curriculum, paperwork, discipline) seem immense (not saying it's a walk in the park here either).

The kids who make a genuine mistake, get Hubbed and never get Hubbed again, didn't need to be Hubbed in the first place and a 1 hour detention would have got the message across in the first place. The kids who are repeatedly Hubbed are the kids who have very little control over their behaviour, and no amount of 'inclusion' is going to change that

That seems to make total sense.

I'd support the school and if he says he has no work then I'd expect him to make it up on a weekend. Until hed logged enough hours of work he wouldnt be getting leisure time.

Well what did he do this time and does he have a pattern of poor behaviour?

I honestly think as parents we are doing our kids a disservice for adult life if we allow poor behaviour to go unpunished because it’s not ‘that bad’. If your son has an issue with the defiance for example, how is he going to cope in a work environment? Is he going to end up being someone that can’t cope with orders and just quits constantly.

That would be how I’d be viewing this. Is this a one off? Is this a pattern? Is this teaching him anything? Is my reaction to this going to help him learn or entrench the behaviour? Only you can answer that.

I think you should treas carefully before complaining about how they do internal exclusion, otherwise they may just go to external exclusion and make it your problem.

It is a way of teaching them what prison is like, excluded from society, unable to progress in life, lots of time alone to reflect on their sins.

otherwise they may just go to external exclusion and make it your problem.

See, that's what I'd expect the school to do?

And it's what ours do. If there's any significant issue we get a call from the class tutor.

If it breaches their code of conduct eg any physical aggression / fighting, it's a suspension.

Of course this becomes, rightly, the parents' problem.

For rocking on a chair? 😳😳😳😳

I’m not agreeing with it, just pointing out the thinking behind the punishment

If they don’t give work (I think they do but there’s no repercussions for not doing it), then he should take some revision in. Past papers are available to print out in the exam board websites and nobody is going to object if he gets on with that kind of work.
Unless your child goes to an insanely strict school like Michaela (in which case you picked the school so must bear some responsibility ), your son is at an age where he is responsible for his behaviour and will know what is acceptable or not. Internal exclusion is a pretty serious consequence and you should be mad at him more than the school who are probably seeing this as their last straw. The other students in the classroom will have a break from your son for the day.

Would you look at that, just the original post omitting what the punishment is actually for then no reply to the many posts asking what he did. Perhaps not such a minor infringement...
Students are given work to do, can you imagine how hard it would be to control the room for staff if they were simply left to their own devices?
Your son can revise and also perhaps reflect on why he's in there so it doesn't occur again.