AIBU to ask you not to take your frustrations out at the system failures of the NHS on the clinician?

[IncognitoPanda]

It’s been a long week. I loved my job but honestly it’s got so tiring being moaned at about things I cannot control. I want to help you with your problem, that’s why I am here. But the sad truth is that in an over stretched service under immense pressure the limited time I have to help you is not best used with you complaining.
I know how many months you have waited for this appointment, I have your referral letter. I know you’re unhappy about it. I am too, I would much rather have seen you when it first occurred rather than you suffering and worrying until now.
I know how long you’ve sat in the waiting area, I can see your check in time. If we don’t have enough staff we will be delayed in seeing you. I will always apologise if the delay is excessive but please don’t delay me even further by spending ten minutes complaining about it.
I know you’re scared, I really do and I completely empathise. But if I tell you it’s a three month wait for a given test, it’s not because I want you to wait 3 months, it’s because that’s how long the queue is. Getting angry at me doesn’t help, and doesn’t give me any ability to speed up that time frame. I could be evasive and not give any clue as to how long your wait is but that wouldn’t help and would just put more pressure on my administrative colleagues when you are chasing for an appointment that they cannot provide.
I know you may have seen the last patient leave my room ten minutes before I call you through, that’s because I have had to complete their paperwork and take time to read your referral and relevant history. I look rude if I have my back to you to read my screens, so it’s important I take a few minutes to understand why you are here before I invite you through. The systems are so disjointed I may have to view multiple software platforms (all of which are slow to open due to the poor it infrastructure). Even doing this I won’t know your full history so please understand if I ask questions that you may have had to answer before.
I know you may have seen me disappear from clinic for 10 minutes. I can assure you I won’t have been off to the coffee shop. Instead I am probably addressing a critical issue that would further delay the clinic if not remedied.
I know you would like to see the clinician each visit. I get it, as I like to see the progress of patients. However if we all had individual waiting lists, the system would become even more unfair as the wait times would vary between clinician. We do talk, we do leave good notes for each other and you will be looked after. Sadly I cannot promise I will see you myself next time.

It’s the desire to help people that keeps most of us in the profession, it’s certainly not the salary or working conditions. Please believe me that I am just as fed up of the system as you.
YABU - it’s a British right to moan
YANBU- I get it

OP, I truly feel for you, but i think your in the minority.

The health professionals ive dealt with recently and close family/friends the one thing that has stood out above all the the lack of compassion and quite frankly hatred towards patients, you will find many threads confirming this.

Thank you for your work OP. We appreciate that the NHS isn't a great place at the moment and we are grateful for those who choose to stay and to provide essential medical care.

I agree and I don’t think you are in the minority of NHS staff who feel like this

Having spent too much time recently with the NHS I've never experienced hatred as a patient (bar one consultant I've been seeing for years who's a prick to everyone).

I have experienced their patience and noticed how busy they are. That said, there's people in all areas of life who don't pull their weight.

I don't know how the medical staff manage to maintain any empathy , how they manage to keep focussed to avoid mistakes , how they manage to just keep going

But it certainly seems to me that most do , for which I am most grateful

I will save my moans for those I think are responsible

I totally agree! Every single person I have seen in the last 12 months have been stark in their clear hatred of me/my issues. I have now been taking antibiotics since June 1st and no one will give me an ENT referral they just palm me off with more antibiotics. No matter how nice or firm I am they all just see me as a waste of time/resources which, if anyone’s ever had mono for an extended period, you would understand I’m not trying to be sick!

I work in the NHS and I’d never dream of telling my patients that it’s their responsibility to figure out, understand and accept the system that’s letting them down.

Our patients didn’t choose to be in need of care… We chose to work in the NHS, it’s part of our job to listen to patients concerns and feedback about the system we chose to be a part of.

I understand your post is helping to explain the problems you’re facing and I agree it’s good to be transparent and honest with patients… and you probably need to write it all down because you’re exhausted and frustrated. But it’s not the job of our patients to quietly accept the chronic lack of funding and catastrophic consequences this is having on the quality of Care.

If there’s one thing that should never be taken from our patients, it’s their right to speak up and advocate for themselves, especially when the system is letting them down and ESPECIALLY when (E.g. mental health services) they find themselves being retraumatised by a service that is meant to be supporting them with their trauma.

As someone else said, just because you’re managing to remain empathic and engaged… doesn’t mean all staff are. I’ve seen some outstanding care and people going far beyond the call of duty… but I have also seen horrific standards of care and people who simply shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near a service that provides care.

All that being said, I’m grateful you’re still in the system and I despair at the thought you may leave, along with many other excellent clinicians. It’s utterly depressing.

Dont think Ive seen a better written post than this that clearly explains exactly what is needed to be heard.

You have hit the nail on the head here.

Well I used the NHS this week, and it was on time, extremely efficient, courteous and professional. I now feel much better. It was everything it was intended to be.

You cannot blame staff for the limitations on resources. That is not their responsibility. That is on the management and the Government that you don't see. The staff are the public spirited and motivated part of the service. Don't treat them badly.

I work in the NHS and I’d never dream of telling my patients that it’s their responsibility to figure out, understand and accept the system that’s letting them down.

I disagree, patients do need to take responsibility for themselves and whilst the system is broken and badly letting them down, they should not be taking that out on the person sitting in front of them trying to help. And if they do spend half their appointment complaining then they can't then get annoyed when the clinician doesn't have time to cover everything they wanted to in order not to run over their timeslot and cause other patients to then wait longer and then complain.

It's a vicious cycle - clinicians try to help, people shout at clinicians about things outside their control and reduce time available to discuss their actual issue, clinicians start burning out from the abuse, patients get less care/consideration, clinicians leave due to their treatment, patients have to start again with someone new, who tries to help but gets shouted at for the last clinicians failings ... And so on ad infinitum

I work in a pharmacy, I have had countless people come in for a medication that is on a SSP or just out of stock with the suppliers and when I've explained this and that it is unavailable they have shouted at me that I was the 4th person who has said it was out of stock and what were they supposed to do? The worst are the people who also acknowledge that "I know it's not your fault" yet continue to shout at me ... If you know it's not my fault and have acknowledged that I have no more control over the situation than you do, why continue shouting at me as though it will make anything better?

We cannot keep good pharmacy staff because they don't want to take the daily abuse when they can stack the shelves for the same money and less stress (we are located in a supermarket) but then people complain because things take even longer as we are chronically understaffed ... If people stopped shouting at us maybe we'd want to come to work and help them.

When we were able to choose which GP we saw at the surgery, I generally chose the GP with the longest waits in the waiting room. Because these were the GPs who never rushed a consultation, always took detailed notes, and generally read your notes before calling you in. And, for that, I accepted that I might have to wait well beyond my appointment time.

It's a shit system - better than no system at all, but it needs fixing.

Op, as a nurse I totally support you. There is so much pressure on us to get patients seen in a timely manner yet there are just not enough staff. Sickness seems to be at an all time high, it is becoming harder and harder to recruit and retain and quite frankly the system is breaking its staff as well as its patients.

i cannot speak for everyone in the nhs but most of us are trying our best. As a patient if you know the system is crap, imagine how we feel dealing with it day in and day out. I’m not looking for sympathy-I chose to do this job and I love it-but there are constant challenges to providing the care that I would like to.

The answer is to have a manager present at all clinics who logistical /waiting times etc complaints can be directed at/to, rather than the clinician who just wants to get on with the clinic stuff they're actually trained for.
The poster who said we've chosen to be part of this system, err no don't think we as clinicians were asked about multi-software systems and all the problems they bring trying to open/navigate. I'm a bloody clinician not a computer scientist.

The nhs and many other systems are broken

I blame our government,, not you.

As a patient who has been through several departments due to various issues, I have nothing but respect for all clinical staff and am always incredibly grateful for their time and knowledge. I’ve never moaned about wait time, ever.

I also do what the tories want and go private when possible to free up nhs patients for those that can’t afford the option of going elsewhere.

Don't get disheartened OP or burnout. It's a failing system and patients are usually great but don't always understand. In secondary care we find people are very grateful, but while visiting etc some visitors constantly ask for updates when we are treating other unwell patients on the ward. This is often because there isn't a clear pathway of who to ask ( the nurse caring for the patient) but sometimes it can be excessive.
Have you heard of Rachel Morris ' You are not a frog'
X

Why are you on antibiotics for a viral infection? There is no cure for mono, you just need to wait it out.

I haven't had cause to complain about medical practitioners.

Administration within the NHS is honestly appalling though, and it does need something done about. I shouldn't have to update my details three times before private letters stop being sent to a 10 year out of date home. I shouldn't turn up for an appointment (which I will ONLY be advised about via letter) to find that it's been cancelled and no one bothered to call or write to me. I definitely shouldn't turn up for the rescheduled appointment to find that exactly the same thing has happened again.

I think it's fair enough for people to complain to NHS staff if the service is substandard. The individual may not be to blame personally but they are part of the system which routinely fails people. It's not all under-funding either, though that's a convenient excuse because it passes the buck to someone else. There are lots of things that staff could do to make the experience better for patients - not striking when their wages are already relatively high, not murdering patients, not hiding behind processes and paperworks for example.

Obviously it'd be wrong for someone to physically assault a nurse or doctor but that applies to just about any employee in any sphere.

@amoobaa

If there’s one thing that should never be taken from our patients, it’s their right to speak up and advocate for themselves, especially when the system is letting them down and ESPECIALLY when (E.g. mental health services) they find themselves being retraumatised by a service that is meant to be supporting them with their trauma.

I don’t think that’s the OPs point.
And the system is also letting the staff down who have to deal with that and with ‘moaning’ patients taking up time that should be used for clinical practise to the benefit of all patients.

To be absolutely clear I am not telling patients that it’s their responsibility to figure out, understand and accept the system that’s letting them down. Quite the opposite. I am saying that I want to help them and treat their problems as best I can but I can’t do that when they are spending the short appointment time discussing these wider issues. I am all for objecting to the state the service is in, but do so through the proper channels - go to PALS or go to your MP. Please do speak up if someone doesn’t treat you with empathy.

@IncognitoPanda
Fully agree.
Just let us concentrate on the clinical issues !

I'm totally with you

It is a tricky one. I work with students, and I let them have a little moan, but then get firmly on with- now we are here, what I'm going to do is XYZ. Acknowledge their stress, and their upset and then get on with it. I don't listen them to them going on and on, my time is quite precious and I'm not interested in nodding along just for the sake of it. It's a skill to do this, some of my colleagues get stuck there for ages, but I tend not to as I'm not as nice as them, but also I want to use the time effectively. If someone is very distressed, like crying, I would go with that, for everything else, we move on briskly I'm afraid.

I have to say the thing that has struck me about the NHS in the last year or so is how antagonistic and difficult the majority of staff are nowadays. I don’t know if it is because they are ground down because of having to deal with it day in day out but in the main I have found the staff uncaring, obstinate and lazy.

I know we’re supposed to be grateful for the NHS and their staff. To be honest I think most of them love playing the martyr but would struggle in the real world. They waft around, doing bugger all and when they are challenged on the fact they aren’t helping you get told they don’t need to put up with “abuse” at work. Rarely are they abused, most of the time it is upset and scared people who just need help navigating a convoluted system managed by apathetic staff.

the NHS is shit and most of the staff are crap. Most people think it, but we’re not allowed to say it