AIBU to ask you not to take your frustrations out at the system failures of the NHS on the clinician?

[IncognitoPanda]

It’s been a long week. I loved my job but honestly it’s got so tiring being moaned at about things I cannot control. I want to help you with your problem, that’s why I am here. But the sad truth is that in an over stretched service under immense pressure the limited time I have to help you is not best used with you complaining.
I know how many months you have waited for this appointment, I have your referral letter. I know you’re unhappy about it. I am too, I would much rather have seen you when it first occurred rather than you suffering and worrying until now.
I know how long you’ve sat in the waiting area, I can see your check in time. If we don’t have enough staff we will be delayed in seeing you. I will always apologise if the delay is excessive but please don’t delay me even further by spending ten minutes complaining about it.
I know you’re scared, I really do and I completely empathise. But if I tell you it’s a three month wait for a given test, it’s not because I want you to wait 3 months, it’s because that’s how long the queue is. Getting angry at me doesn’t help, and doesn’t give me any ability to speed up that time frame. I could be evasive and not give any clue as to how long your wait is but that wouldn’t help and would just put more pressure on my administrative colleagues when you are chasing for an appointment that they cannot provide.
I know you may have seen the last patient leave my room ten minutes before I call you through, that’s because I have had to complete their paperwork and take time to read your referral and relevant history. I look rude if I have my back to you to read my screens, so it’s important I take a few minutes to understand why you are here before I invite you through. The systems are so disjointed I may have to view multiple software platforms (all of which are slow to open due to the poor it infrastructure). Even doing this I won’t know your full history so please understand if I ask questions that you may have had to answer before.
I know you may have seen me disappear from clinic for 10 minutes. I can assure you I won’t have been off to the coffee shop. Instead I am probably addressing a critical issue that would further delay the clinic if not remedied.
I know you would like to see the clinician each visit. I get it, as I like to see the progress of patients. However if we all had individual waiting lists, the system would become even more unfair as the wait times would vary between clinician. We do talk, we do leave good notes for each other and you will be looked after. Sadly I cannot promise I will see you myself next time.

It’s the desire to help people that keeps most of us in the profession, it’s certainly not the salary or working conditions. Please believe me that I am just as fed up of the system as you.
YABU - it’s a British right to moan
YANBU- I get it

@Haydenn / couldn't disagree with you more. Had a great experience yesterday.

They are ground down by their employers and ungrateful patients who are just not prepared to understand that they are not in charge of resources.

the NHS is shit and most of the staff are crap. Most people think it, but we’re not allowed to say it

This.

Theres a story in the media today about a female patient who died from drinking too much water, the staff were too busy on their personal phones to notice.

But talk to anyone that works in the NHS and you get “ we don’t even have time to go to the toilet”.

If there’s one thing that should never be taken from our patients, it’s their right to speak up and advocate for themselves, especially when the system is letting them down and ESPECIALLY when (E.g. mental health services) they find themselves being retraumatised by a service that is meant to be supporting them with their trauma.

Thank you.
When I was in a bad spot, I was seeing a psychiatrist. I saw FOUR different ones over quite a short period - the same one only twice. Each time I spent a good part of the appointment going over what I had already told the previous one. It was hard.
Of course I understand the reasons for the high turn over of staff, but in that moment the health care professional is the only person to 'take it out' on.
Going to those appointments was really hard, and I look back now (thankfully in a much better place) and can see how awful I was. I didn't raise my voice or rant away, instead I cried with frustration and had a feeling of wondering what the point was, and I did have a go at the psychiatrist. How was I meant to build a trusting relationship where I was encouraged to tell them things I had not told anyone else (or even myself)?

I did have consistent care from a MH nurse who understood this frustration and acknowledged my feelings toward the difficult psychiatric appointments, and I would like to think the psychiatrist was compassionate.

Do you realise how demoralising it is to say that most staff are shit??
I work in a cancer hospital and no one is crap. We are all just doing our best in an underfunded and underresourced system.

And for the person who said that we wouldn’t cope in the real world, I’d like to see you cope nursing.

Of course you are allowed to say the nhs is shit and voice your concerns but as for any large organisation not all of it is. It’s like saying that Tesco is shit. No one is trying to silence you but please have a thought of the impact that the bashing has on staff. We are pretty much all you have left of the nhs and without us services would be worse.

Im not a martyr by any means but I go in and do my best day in and day out.
The Media only ever portrays the bad stuff. Of course mistakes happen and I’m sure that in some areas, neglect does too. But please don’t tar the whole nhs brush with that as everyone I know is working incredibly hard and cares about their patients.

Sorry but I disagree. I have no idea how you interact with your patients of course and you might be different from the GP/ consultants/staff I have seen.
But my experience with the NHS is everything you describe, but no apologies about the wait, being told off if you're 5 min late at the GP (yet they're always 20 min late at least), waiting hours for the consultant after a scan with 0 information how long the delay is and being rudely sent away if we dare asking for an update, rude response every time we ask a question about how the service works, condescending GP....

Basically, my issue is I completely understand everything you are saying about services being underfunded and everyone doing their best, but respect goes both ways. Patients in need of the NHS aren't particularly having a better day!

the NHS is shit and most of the staff are crap. Most people think it, but we’re not allowed to say it

That has not been my experience at all. How are you qualified to say what most people think?

@Haydenn Most people do not think “the NHS is shit and most of the staff are crap” and anyway that’s just not true. Successive Tory governments have deliberately underfunded and undermined the service because they and their mates benefit financially from privatisation.

If you really think that I suggest you go entirely private and see how you like it then.

@IncognitoPanda , I understand how you feeel. Everyone is overburdened and stressed, but thank you for being there.

I also disagree strongly most of the staff are 'crap', in fact, the crap ones stand out because most of them are very good. In my case I've been cared for mainly by healthcare assistants and not nurses (nurses oversee but hands-on care done by assistants) and they are just so great, not a bit great, proper great.

I've been in a lot of departments over the years with family members and for myself, and I would say 80% of the staff are good. A few are bad plus bad ones tend to cluster together, so if the tone on the ward is that patients are a pain and the best thing to do is stay away from them, then everyone does that. If the tone on the ward is quick, immediate, compassionate care, everyone does that. It's about setting standards of care from the outset and once that's set at the top, people fall into line.

100% of the computer systems (they are not even all computer systems, they are still wheeling around paper records, different departments have no records shared) are crap. No sharing at all, no ability to see anything in different hospitals. Life-threateningly so, crucial information does not flash up on the screen when it needs to- and often staff are working without the information/notes they need to really make good decisions.

Yeah, exactly this.

I've given more than 30 years of my life to the NHS as a full time NHS doctor. In one year, the minute I can, I'm off. I'm broken emotionally and now my physical health is collapsing. I LOVE the NHS ideal, I've worked so hard to provide care and so many (unpaid hours) to do my best. But now, I'm just broken. The system is so underfunded, the staff are treated so badly - its just demoralising, and dispiriting. wanted to work PT for longer, but I just cannot.

For me, it's the lack of joined up thinking: I did upset at the pharmacy (not /at/ them, just there) when I'd walked a two year old and a baby in the rain to be told that not only did they not have the double strength antibiotics that my two year old with a 41 degree temp needed, but neither did most of the pharmacies in town.

My one year old was really sick earlier this year. Our go were great, although we saw a different person everytime: they all agreed something was wrong, but noone knew what. We got sent to the hospital with suspected sepsis, only to be brushed off and asked for a urine sample (from a one year old, with no help). She didn't get better, and eventually our gp sent her for blood tests: she was awfully anemic, she ended up being coeliac. Why couldn't they do her bloods at a and e, when she was really sick?

Recently, we've spent the evening in a and e where my parents live. Everyone was amazing, especially the people on the Monday morning shift, however one Dr in a and e was awful. She kept telling me my daughter's finger wasn't broken (I didn't think it was), told me I'd either have to go back to a and e that night in my home town, or agree to go to the trauma clinic at my parents' on Monday: the impression was I wasn't allowed to leave until I'd agreed to one. I couldn't possibly be referred to home town trauma clinic. I agreed, and then found out on Monday morning she'd out another kid's name on my daughter's records and referral letter, including their NHS number!

These all feel like silly issues, not caused by waiting times or pressure, but laziness, not following through and bad attitude. And it's like 1 in ten people who bring the fantastic service from everyone else down, but also create more work for them!

A few years ago part of my job was to deal with assaults and abuse in the NHS and its staff. The figures were high. One of the questions was whether we could prosecute more to protect staff or deter which I thought was a good idea.

It was indicated to me that many staff did not want this and the reason was often given that abuse and assault were the results of people being mentally ill, drunk or in significant pain. In other words there was a lot of compassion for even the most unpleasant patients. They are in other words looking after you in your worst moments. It bears remembering

I think you risk actually curtains peoples right to express their dissatisfaction. Personally I think people have a right to say when a wait has been too long. I agree that individual staff are doing their best but that doesn't mean everyone shod just shut up and be thankful for whatever they get.

I think this thread highlights a real issue

Most posters who have complaints on this thread about the NHS have been quite personal about the staff. We've had the staff are shit, they murder patients, they waft around and do nothing, wouldn't cope in the real world etc (as if a hospital isn't real)'

There are many things wrong with the NHS but once the criticisms start being so general and
critical about staff that is incredibly demoralising.

If a patient is upset about a scan wait, or surgery time that is valid and they are allowed to voice those concerns. If a patient feels a specific clinician hasn't been empathetic or treated them appropriately that again is a valid concern. But when the criticisms start being "the staff are all shit" "they murder patients" then that is draining and also not something a clinician can deal with

Thank you for putting it so eloquently. You have made me feel heard.
I hear you too. Xx

But you went to the GP multiple times? Were you brushed off in A&E or was she not septic. You can't test every sick one year old for coeliac disease and anaemia who comes in. Coeliac and anaemia are both things that are manageable and testable in the GP. That's not a lack of joined up thinking or innappropriate care.

The ED doctor made a mistake, maybe that was laziness or maybe she was tired and yes, her care wasn't great. But none of your other examples are examples of laziness or bad attitude.

@CarPour I think one of the issues is that patients don't know where to go for different tests and different problems, and then are often treated as a bit stupid when they turn up in the wrong place. I've recently enquired about a very standard treatment pathway and been told no-one knows where it is happening, so I've bothered the GP, the hospital and goodness knows who else to find out where this is happening and in what timescale.

Unfortunately being in an inefficient system means everyone is stressed, the workers, the patients, it's so destructive to good care.

@Littlecatonthefence

It should be ‘you’re’ not ‘your’ and the ‘i’ should have been capitalised.

It’s ‘I’ve’ not ‘ive’ by the way.

If you’re going to troll doctors explaining that they’re exhausted, at least learn how to write properly. You may also wish to consider commas in your future trolling posts.

This. Unless you are bleeding to death and on the verge of collapse the contempt for patients is not well disguised by NHS staff.

Unfortunately repeated complaints to the clinician were the only way my family member recieved the surgery that saved their life. I empathise with you OP, I work in an over stretched service too. But sadly, sitting there quietly and being understanding that people are overworked, and there are others worse off simply makes it easier for you to be overlooked. There are no rewards for good behaviour sadly, and making some noise often serves you well. Where their health or lives of their loved ones are concerned most people tend to push as hard as they can to whomever they can, because they're desperate, they're scared, and whether you admit it or not, it often helps galvanise services into action more quickly that quiet patience does.

I had to ring for a referral and she said it's a years wait
I think she expected me to yell at her as she kept apologising but I said "me getting angry does no good, you don't control the waiting list and it is what it is"
Dread to imagine how she is being spoken to

So she must be a troll because she dared to disagree ? What evidence do you have that she is a troll ? Your assumptions are quite scary because it means anyone you disagree with can be shouted down by accusing them of trolling and using poor grammar. Not a very intelligent position to come from.

@5128gap I agree with this to some extent. In an unfair system, the pushy people win. That said, you can be pushy and polite. I'm always very cooperative and nice with admin staff as well, because they don't deserve to get shouted at, but I also usually ask for a cancellation and have got them many times. I never wait years and years for urgent things (pay privately for initial consultation, go back in the NHS; ask for cancellations for scans, for appointments).

I agree there is never an excuse for being rude or aggressive. But the OP is expecting people not to complain to her at all and to have empathy with her position because its not her fault. Unfortunately I think when your chosen profession involves dealing with people who are ill, in pain, scared and often at their most vulnerable, it's a big ask of them to centre you and your feelings and sit there quietly to avoid making your day harder. It's not the patients fault OP is working in intolerable conditions. And while it's not the OPs fault the patient is suffering because of that, they are going to be thinking of themselves first and foremost. In theory it's easy to sit and criticise the complainers, but how many people would really sit there in passive acceptance if it was their child, for example?

I have absolutely no idea, you would have to ask the various GPs, senior nurses, paramedics and health care assistants that have all prescribed me them. I have had repeated swabs come back with a strep A and staph infection highlighted but they are still telling me it’s “just mono” and “the next lot of antibiotics will clear it up” inevitably it does nothing and I end up in the same cycle again.