To think Europen governments need to respond to immigration?

[Finlesswonder]

So the Netherlands is going to have a far right government.
Sweden has moved to the right.
Finland has shut its borders.
Countries that have traditionally been liberal are hardening and irrespective of the many issues listed its to do with immigration.

Ireland has seen violent protests last night following a series of stabbings.
In the UK we obviously had Brexit.

I think governments need to start responding to voters feelings on immigration as if they don't we will continue to see a general slide to the right in Europe, when actually these countries aren't right wing: it feels like a single issue is distorting the entire political landscape?

Why always think people who vote right wing are ignorant and racist? Maybe they have thought about it a lot but have completely lost faith in central or left wing governments fixing any of the social and economical issues facing their society? That is what is to blame in at least Sweden, Finland and the Netherlands.

Record immigration means the Treasury can afford the tax cuts announced in the Autumn Statement this week, economists have said.
Net migration reached 672,000 in the year to June 2023, up from 606,000 a year ago, according to figures from the Office for National Statistics (ONS) published on Thursday.
The ONS also revised upwards its estimated net migration for the year to December 2022, saying it reached a record high of 745,000.
A forecasted increase in net migration will boost the annual tax revenue by around £18bn in four years’ time – giving the Chancellor room to make cuts, analysis of data from the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) shows.

It’s easy to chant “stop the boats”, but, a vast majority of immigration isn’t people arriving illegally on boats. They are people who are using proper processes, and arriving through controlled borders.

The focus on “boats” it’s a bit of a “chuck a dead cat in a room” scenario. It’s finding a common enemy to point the finger at.
The issue is that we have lots of “native” born people, living in poverty or in difficult situations, and the government wants to give them someone to blame (that isn’t the government).

We aren’t overcrowded, we are underfunded.

I still can’t get my head around the govt, giving benefits to people who are working full time, because thier employer doesn’t pay them a living wage, whilst at the same time the employer is making massive profits. More of your taxpayers money goes to the shareholders of major supermarkets, than goes on housing asylum seekers.

There are massive inequalities in this country, and the govt and the right-wing media, want us to look somewhere else instead of at them.

At the heart of every right-wing government is a rich man, using the power he’s got to make himself and his cronies richer … the right-wing has never done anything for the Working Class, but they believing them.

Reduce migration and pay more tax.

I've just watched the Gillian Duffy conversation with Gordon Brown - and yep - she's definitely bigoted and pretty aggressive in her tone with him right from the start.

Blaming Gordon Brown even partly for Brexit is hilarious.

Maybe it was David Cameron's ill judged plan to stop the Tories' in-fighting????

Yes the threads would be overrun with insults

Majority yanbu vote on this one.

All. Of. This.

No, though it's largely irrelevant whether I agree with her or not.

You agree Brown insulted her on mic rather than engage with her point.

What I am saying is this allowed people to hear what politicians really thought, made them realise that politicians were not open to engagement and this has influenced the way people have voted.

It's not difficult. If politicians refuse to listen or engage, on any subject, people make their voices heard at the ballot box.

I agree the boats are irrelevant in the numbers...3/4 million people and it will be legal migration in the main. It beggars belief to increase the population by over 1% every year then wonder why we have a housing crisis.

I’ve got a better idea, just get rid of all the men they seem to be a common denominator anyway. I reckon a multicultural place with just women wouldn’t be an issue as a lot of restrictions wouldn’t apply and there wouldn’t be many differences or culture clashes

Seeing the intimidating ‘demonstrations’ in London and other cities with people shouting effectively ‘kill Jewish people’ does not make people support immigration. Will these events continue now there is a ceasefire?

@Notonthestairs
I agree. The NHS should operate along a French model where the wealthy pay in more and it remains free for those who need it most.

University education for doctors, nurses and any other shortages we have should be entirely free for people born in the UK, and their wages should be upped, this would solve our "we need more people" problem. Care work is really demanding and low paid, again we should pay for people to do apprenticeships in care and then reward them with higher salaries so we don't have to rely on importing labour.

How do we yet the money for this? By slapping High taxes on inheritance, second homes and buy to lets as well as big businesses.

It's not difficult. If politicians refuse to listen or engage, on any subject, people make their voices heard at the ballot box.

It’s a reasonable point

There is a difference between right wing and far right.

If you vote for a party that is racist, you are either also a racist or a fool.

If you vote regular right wing, that's different.

How do you intend to raise the tax revenue we need to pay our pensions without immigration?

People who oppose immigration won't discuss the economic impact of restricting it.

Student immigration, for example, bring billions into our economy. Do you want to be poorer without that income?

Gillian Duffy wasn't engaging either.

The reality is, for example, student immigration brings in huge amounts of money and provides high paid jobs which raise taxes.

What category of immigration do you want to cut? What decline in GDP do you want to see?

Very good point.

The Tories whip up anti-immigrant feeling to get votes, but as the figures show their actual policies can't ignore the economic necessity of much the immigration we are seeing now. I do agree with Yvette Cooper though that these levels are in part due to the failure to give long term investment into training and skills, even if I really disagree with the Labour party's current position on student immigration.

Of course the Tories have failed to invest everywhere and seem mystified why growth is so weak when their only solution is more cuts, imported labour and taking support off disabled people.

Yes she was aggressive from the outset. Amazingly she was a Labour member.

He should not have said what he said, but she's no hero.

The boats wouldn’t come if you could apply for asylum OUTSIDE of the UK. They come because you can only claim asylum INSIDE of the UK

You’re missing the point entirely. Whether or not Gillian Duffy or others with concerns about immigration are bigots or not is one thing. But it’s when politicians close people down and write them off as someone not worth listening to that voters realise they’re not being heard and will turn to less savoury parties.

Had Gordon Brown taken the time to listen to Duffy to get to the root of the issue, he might have found there were legitimate hardships, like lack of decent accommodation, that need to be addressed. That she’s right to be concerned about, even if she’s attributed it to the wrong cause.

It’s no good simply shouting that it’s not the fault of immigrants and not tackling the real issues dr inf grievances. People need to feel heard and that politicians will address their hardships. If they don’t, they’ll look elsewhere and parties offering a simple solution will seem very attractive.

This is true on a lot of forums. With the result that those who are broadly right of centre don't put their heads above the parapet as they know they will get verbally abused. So there is never a true representation of opinions in the wider community. Which is why Brexit and Tory's winning elections come as a surprise.

I fear it’s only a matter of time before we start seeing what has happened in Dublin in cities in the UK.

I don't oppose immigration. But the numbers are unsustainable. It's a pyramid scheme to some extent. Increase population...NHS needs more workers as do other sectors....so increase population some more, now more workers are needed, so we increase the population some more and on and on it goes. Richer on paper ie economic growth and GDP does not necessarily mean a higher standard of living for people

What we would have to gain is desperately needed workers. There is a major recruitment problem in the NHS, care industry, hospitality, farming, all over.

What would you have them do about it though?

Apparently the so-called "illegal migration" only accounts for around 3% of the overall immigration figures. Many of those will be genuine asylum seekers who are subsequently granted refugee status. Most people would support taking in genuine refugees. The number of economic migrants coming in via that route is actually quite small.

The rest of the migration figures are legal migration - NHS workers, carers, international students who keep our universities afloat etc. Someone did some research about people's attitudes towards the individual categories of migrants and apparently, most people were in favour of every category except bankers. And I don't think anyone would particularly make the argument that we're being overrun by foreign bankers, who probably contribute handsomely to the overall tax take.

We need to address the skills gaps in our own country in order to address this in the longer term, and we need to look at our healthcare system to see if we can provide better care that would enable people with long term illnesses to be well enough to get back to work. We also need to invest properly in our public services and housing infrastructure etc so that people don't feel that resources are so stretched, as concerns about immigration are more often than not concerns about access to resources.

But there are no easy answers. We can't just close the door to immigration without other significant impacts on our economy, our public services, our education system etc, so people need to be careful what they wish for.