To think Europen governments need to respond to immigration?

[Finlesswonder]

So the Netherlands is going to have a far right government.
Sweden has moved to the right.
Finland has shut its borders.
Countries that have traditionally been liberal are hardening and irrespective of the many issues listed its to do with immigration.

Ireland has seen violent protests last night following a series of stabbings.
In the UK we obviously had Brexit.

I think governments need to start responding to voters feelings on immigration as if they don't we will continue to see a general slide to the right in Europe, when actually these countries aren't right wing: it feels like a single issue is distorting the entire political landscape?

I find your posts very odd. So you are blaming the housing crisis on people who are living in bigger properties than they strictly require? Houses that no doubt people have worked hard to buy? And who on earth would police this to ensure each person doesn't exceed their housing quota? Sounds like the start of some dystopian novel....

@lljkk you're deluded.

So people should all live in the smallest homes possible to make space for more immigrants?
That should play well with voters 😂

It's what the USSR did.

They expropriated the available housing and used it to increase population density. They also built new slums flats with no thought for anything but how many they could squeeze there.

Some posters here are having wet dreams about this, it seems.

Oh my god you bunch of weirdos, clearly she is not saying that.
She's talking about the fact historically you could buy a relatively nice house on a modest income and so today a lot of the bigger,nicer houses are being lived in by older single people who couldn't hope to live there if they were born today.

And that is nothing to do with immigrants and everything to do with the fact the housing market is distorted by successive government policies.

They gave thought to ensuring people were kept warm (too warm sometimes - centrally controlled….) and sheltered. No point comparing one completely different country with another. It’s not as if Russia ever had a good reputation for quality of life of its peasant population pre-revolution, because funnily enough, revolutions do not tend to happen when people feel they have something worthwhile to lose.

She's not saying that.

She's saying when you're one of the people with an excessive amount of house for your needs. Excessive as in above "your needs", and we all know where "according to their needs" comes from, and that the cuddly old uncle Karl.

Also, how can you claim the he market is not distorted by immigration, especially in the light of the new numbers? These are all people who need housing, right now.

OK. Well if your answer to housing inequality is "stop immigration" I think you are going to be disappointed on lots of levels.

It is a bit galling to hear a poster who clearly lives very comfortably in a big house being "I'm alright Jack" about everyone else's living circumstances.

Who's your post addressed to?

You obviously.

And the bit about the posted being galling was referring to this:
I have £750k from the sale of my family home and I want a home with social and outdoor space in the location of my choice.

I also have enough in my pension to have freedom of choice, so I am actually quite impossible to boss around.

Complete lack of empathy for people trying to raise a family in 2023, just this kind of pervasive attitude that its their own fault they can't afford a house.

Whereas the reality is she is rich enough to do what she likes because she was lucky enough to be born in an era where houses were affordable and has made a killing from the rise in house prices.

So my house is fair game? I should move, change my whole way of life so someone can have it?

Funny, because I seem to recall the outcry when the so called "bedroom tax" was mooted, about how unfair it is to ask people to move or to pay extra for housing they have been allocated.

If you are looking for spare housing, then why not there?

What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

There’s a couple of give up your property pp on various threads. They could lead by example and start with their own.

I'm bound to point out that this is not permitted under that pesky European Convention on Human Rights. That would be the same Convention that some posters are so keen to disapply for asylum seekers. You have to be very careful when you make new precedents in law because in democracy, you can never quite guarantee that the argument made for one set of people could not easily be extended to another. Domestically if the UK maintains it can override international law for domestic purposes such as asylum management there would not be a lot to say that you could not do similar for other domestic purposes such as a "housing crisis". And of course, were a party in power in the UK to advance this, you could claim it was "the will of the people".

The law of power is that in democracy, it may at some stage be used against you and your own interests. Tread carefully

Some will be shock when the numbers of people are unmanageable. The radical solutions that would have to be done to accommodate the population.

I’m not saying it’s going to happen.
The voters have more sense than that.

I’m saying that some posters are positively salivating thinking about it.

Well, it's a minority who want rid of the ECHR but they get traction in government with ministers so why not this with Labour? Get rid of the ECHR and I can come to your house with an order to claim it for a family.

This is actually plausible policy for council housing

I wonder how countries manage out of the ECHR

Aus and NZ seem to be ok for house owners 🤔

The point would be, there is not a lot to stop that in AUS already (some significant differences).

We have made that commitment in the ECHR, partly because removal of property was what the Nazis did to Jews, removing their assets. Property and the right to dispose of it is thus a human right in the ECHR

‘Not a lot to stop..’

Is scaremongering. Houses will not be requisitioned in Aus

They do have better ability to determine their own policies though, which will be increasingly beneficial as climate change puts pressure on post war institutions

Well you can't show or demonstrate a source or seem unwilling. I say possible. Plausible is different

Noone is saying that
Is it fair, when you look at the country as a whole, that older people can afford nicer houses alone than young families?
I think a lot of people think that isn't fair. And there is a tonne of stuff that could be done to even it out but this government won't because their voter/member base is rich retired people. Much easier to blame the housing crisis on immigrants.

Oh and FYI the bedroom tax was implemented, not "mooted", and is still in place. Which just goes to show how absolutely out of touch you are.

Here https://www.itv.com/news/2023-07-27/ten-years-on-and-no-plans-to-axe-the-bedroom-tax

So maybe "what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander" and you should start paying additional council tax for each spare room you have, so the council can raise money to better house those in need. How would you feel about that?

I can guess - "I worked hard, I paid my taxes and I'm alright Jack"
But of course you will expect to keep your house should you need care. Because "I worked hard and paid my taxes"

Attitude absolutely sucks and I'm glad it's not representative of the country at large

It’s not going to happen. It’s irrelevant.

What is actually plausible and increasingly so is voters showing they are not happy with the lack of ability for politicians to act due to a system created when pressures were different.

They will vote for those who listen, which is evident in increase for far right. There will also be growing public disorder.

Both are already happening.

Relevantly, Aus is interesting but it's not a complete answer and it's not that useful. What it amounts to is saying another country does it differently, and one that has is geographically nearly completely distinct and indeed legally.