To be confused about "healthy eating"

[Van34]

It's not that I don't understand what foods are and aren't healthy (or so i thought). But I have no idea how to eat healthily. Bear with me.
I used to have a jacket and tuna (with a dash of mayo) but then I was told that it was as unhealthy as sandwiches. So then I tried salads but remain hungry no matter how much I had. Went onto soup but was then told that they are also unhealthy and ultra processed. What should I have?
I understand moderation but portion sizes are minute. One portion of cereal is enough for a toddler. That's not going to fill me up until lunchtime. Is a slice of toast healthy? It used to be a staple breakfast when I was growing up. Or should we be having something else (not a tiny portion if cereal)
We eat home cooked food everyday, no ready meals. But are they healthy? Chilli, steak and chips, chicken in pittas, fajitas, mince and dumplings. All staples from childhood and all filling. But are they healthy? I know what's in them so they should be...
It's a minefield. No red meat. No wine. Low sugar. Low salt. Low carb. High fibre. Low fat. No fat. High protein. Low cal. But so many of these diet foods are processed....
I am so confused about it all.

Start listening to the Zoe podcast and follow Tim Spector online. He basically advocates a diet of at least 30 plants a week and to avoid highly processed foods. But as with so many things in life, nutrition is highly personal. So what suits one person might not suit another. A jacket potato with salad and tuna sounds like a healthy lunch to me. To be super healthy you could swap out the Mayo for olive oil, and add a few nuts/seeds to the salad.

Swap ultra processed bread for sourdough or home made. Add extra veg to all your home cooked favourites.
If a product has any ingredient in it which you wouldn't find in a normal kitchen, then it is ultra processed and should be avoided. Breakfast cereal tends to be the most ultra processed of all. Ultra Processed People by Chris Van Tulleken is a great read.

I used to have a jacket and tuna (with a dash of mayo) but then I was told that it was as unhealthy as sandwiches. So then I tried salads but remain hungry no matter how much I had. Went onto soup but was then told that they are also unhealthy and ultra processed

Have you ever thought that some people are telling you nonsense? I'd be wary about asking for advice about food on here as it will drag out the orthorexics who think that people should eat nothing but home made organic protein and veg, but the reality is that Michael Pollan's advice that was 'Eat real food, not too much, mostly plants' just about covers it, taking into account the 80/20 rule - it's what you do most of the time that matters but there's plenty of scope for what you eat to not stick 100% to the letter, however you define it.

Just make sure you eat plenty of veg, some fruit but not loads, mostly unprocessed and be realistic about portion sizes. You don't need to eat toddler size portions, but you shouldn't pile your (large dinner) plate high either.

Plus if you are hungry in the morning, eat more then. If you do this, you'll probably naturally eat less later on because you won't be starving hungry all day. If the common 'eat little or nothing all day in anticipation of a big dinner' way of eating doesn't work for you, don't eat like that.

I don’t think mumsnet is the place to come for this kind of advice, there’s a lot of disordered eating and pseudo science presented as ‘fact’ here and I know it makes me doubt and question myself often.

I think it’s more helpful to think in terms of an overall diet being healthy and balanced rather than individual foods or meals.

Different foods have different nutritional profiles, and some are better than others at meeting particular needs. There’s nothing wrong or inherently unhealthy about a jacket potato with tuna (and there wasn’t anything wrong with having a sandwich either). Fantastic source of lots of vitamins, protein and fibre. When people said a salad was healthier they probably meant lower carb - which some people insist is ‘healthy’ but it’s far from a given fact. Is it ‘healthier’ to eat the salad if you’re then starving and end up snacking on biscuits or crisps or something to get you through the afternoon? I mean you can certainly do more filling salads - but if you’re happy with the jacket potato have that, or have that sometimes and the soup sometimes and the sandwich other days etc.

Honestly I think it’s about eating a variety of food in as close to its natural state as you can get it (so yes avoiding the UPFs where you can but there’s going to be some and that’s probably fine), at least 5 a day - ideally more and listening to your own body and fullness signals. I don’t think obsessing or over worrying about it is healthy either. Do I manage this all the time? Not really, but I think that’s what ‘healthy’ looks like.

Stop listening to everyone and anyone. I absolute agree it gets mega confusing!
If you don't have certain health conditions which need restrictions, you just eat bit of everything and that's it. Healthy is simply more fresh, less processed, balanced diet.

Portion sizes on packs have not much to do with reality. These are often small so the salt/sugar/cal per portion look better🤷

Be careful here, lots of ED and misinformation on here and it shows on quite a lot of "advice". Don't go down some ridiculous rabbit hole.

I think a lot depends on your individual metabolism. I have PCOS which has an impact on how my body handles sugar / carbohydrates. So the type of eating that works best for me is low-ish carbs, no sugar, plenty of veg and protein but also crucially a decent amount of fat. The combination of fat and protein is what keeps me full.

My day might look like:
Breakfast: 2 eggs cooked in butter, a coffee with a splash of cream in
Lunch: Tuna mayo with half a potato and half a plate of salad with an olive oil dressing. Handful of nuts.
Dinner: Some kind of protein with veg cooked in butter. Apple dipped in peanut butter.

I've lost serious amounts of weight eating this way and it works for me. I don't feel hungry.

There are a lot of industries making a huge amount of money out of pretending it’s complicated when actually it’s not. With the exception of a minority of people who may have allergies, illnesses or disabilities / are elite athletes etc, the following rules for healthy apply to everybody:

1. eat way, way more fruit and veg than you think you need to. As many colours as possible. Half of every plate plus some snacks should be fruit and / or veg. It fills you up, it’s nutrient dense, it improves gut health, it helps keep your bowel movements regular. Five portions a day is the bare minimum, you should be aiming for ten.

2. the more you can make from scratch the better. There is a world of difference between a jar of dolmio sauce and a tomato pasta sauce made from scratch. The less you can eat from jars and packets the better. Hidden sugar is a big factor in dietary health and avoiding packaged foods is a good way to minimise it.

3. pretty much everything is fine as long as you’re eating it in sensible quantities. That includes wine, sugar and meat. You can’t eat lots of them every day, but they’re fine as part of a balanced diet.

4. We should all be eating beans or lentils every week, they’re nutritional powerhouses and help prevent bowel cancer

5. We all eat too much salt and should find alternatives for creating an umami flavour (garlic, onions, fresh herbs, lemon, low sodium salt or stock, pepper, nutritional yeast, balsamic vinegar)

6. the obsession with protein in diet and fitness communities is OTT. Most people easily meet their protein needs with the average western diet and don’t need to go out of their way to add more to their diet. Far more people would benefit from adding more fibre rather than more protein.

I'm trying to follow the Mediterranean diet as much as I can. I think, from what I can gather, it is accepted as being really healthy.

NHS website is very clear about what we should eat so please stick to that. Their advice will have the strongest evidence base of all advice @Van34 , they don't change it until there's a lot of evidence behind the change. And it's all set out very clearly.

I used to have a jacket and tuna (with a dash of mayo) but then I was told that it was as unhealthy as sandwiches

Well whoever told you that is talking nonsense- though there's nothing wrong with sandwiches either especially if you use wholemeal bread.

All the items you mention, even chips, can be healthy, just check the amount of saturated fat in the specific ones you use. Healthiest chips can be made by chopping a baking potato into wedges and cooking, as long as you don't add much fat and salt. Then it has the same nutrition as a baked potato (which is a healthy food full of the fibre we need, and quite a bit of vitamin C.)

If you cook mostly from scratch, with largely fresh ingredients, plenty of fruit and veg, go easy on red meat and UPFs, you won’t go far wrong.

Fat and carbs are both part of a healthy diet - only people who are dieting or are unhealthily obsessed with their food intake, will hold up their hands in horror.

Eating seasonal, locally produced veg and fruit as far as possible (less easy in winter) helps to keep costs down. Expensive fresh items flown in from thousands of miles away may be fashionable, and may be nice now and then, but it’s perfectly possible to eat healthily without them.

Also I agree with PPs - the people telling you jacket potatoes, sandwiches and soups are unhealthy are bonkers. All of those things are absolutely fine.

@Mumofonlyone is right, Mediterranean diet has the best evidence base. @Van34 Be sure to have fish twice a week, including oily fish.

Look at NHS guidance. Eat as much unprocessed food as you can. Eat as much fruit and veg as you can. Don't eat anything labelled 'diet' or 'low fat' or 'low sugar'. A jacket potato with tuna is healthy. Soup is healthy, even tinned.

I don’t think Mumsnet is the place to come for this kind of advice, there’s a lot of disordered eating and pseudo science presented as ‘fact’ here and I know it makes me doubt and question myself often

Totally agree with @AliasGrape . Some most of the weight loss / diet threads on MN are frankly batshit.

OP, When you say "I was told" - who told you? What makes you trust that they know what they are talking about?

I think you need to trust your instincts a bit more. The things you listed don't sound that awful tbh. How do you feel after you eat different things? Sluggish? Energised? Unsatisfied? Listen to what your body is telling you.

Also there is a lot of stuff around about reducing the amount of highly processed food that we eat, that always seems like a sensible place to start. But it sounds like you are doing well with this already.

It's a minefield. No red meat. No wine. Low sugar. Low salt. Low carb. High fibre. Low fat. No fat. High protein. Low cal.

Well that's a load of absolute bullshit to start. Red meat is a wonderful food as nutritionally dense as you can get. The vast majority of people should be eating more red meat, especially organ meats. And more oily fish. Naturally occurring fats like those in dairy and eggs, are excellent foods, avoid low fat dairy, it's much more highly processed. When it comes to simple filling carbs, potatoes are a nutritional gold mine. Oats would come second. Wheat and rice based foods are fine to have sometimes, but potatoes and oats are nutritionally more dense. Eat as much fruits and vegetables as you feel like and then some. Alcohol is probably worse for us than was even recently understood, so keep that to a minimum. And stay active.

Try to make UPF foods, less than 80% of your diet. Life would be a bit miserable if you always feel you have to say no to ice-cream and pizza, but keep most of your diet reasonably from whole foods and enjoy eating.

Healthy fats are part of a healthy diet in balanced amounts. Saturated fat is less nutritious, with potential health risks, and easy to cut down on.

A jacket potato is absolutely not an ultra processed food. I've no idea what "as bad as sandwiches" means. I assume the (idiotic) person who said that meant that it was as calorific as a sandwich. There is also nothing wrong with a sandwich.

Again nonsense that soup is ultra processed if you're making it yourself. Factually incorrect in fact.

I think you're getting a bit confused about what "healthy" means. Really it means eating things you've cooked yourself with a decent balance of ingredients. It absolutely doesn't mean cutting out food groups, denying yourself foods or demonising particular foods or going hungry.

Wow this is like THE most reasonable food thread I've seen on MN! Loving it

People eat a ridiculous amount of carbs. Thats why everyone is developing type 2 diabetes. A whole jacket potato is too large a portion of carbs. It’s better than bread of course, because it’s less processed, but you still have to restrict your serving size. When people say eat more plants, they mean plants - not roots like potatoes and carrots etc which are heavy on carbs.

I jinxed it

Agree with the majority that the more people you listen to, the more confusing it gets and some posters on MN have attitudes towards food that are verging on disordered eating. I clearly recall a poster asking for advice on improving her diet and another coming along and naming the humous as a 'waste of calories'. Food is for enjoying and to refer to something which tastes good and is rich in carbohydrates, protein, healthy fat and fibre this way is just nonsense.

The basics which most PP on here are referring to - foods in as close to their natural state as possible, made at home, a diet rich in plants is the ideal place to start. Ignore information about macros, don't get sucked into buying ultra-processed foods with added protein.

There isn't a definition of healthy food. It is recommended that the vast majority of your diet consists of minimally processed food and each meal has a balance of protein, complex carbohydrates and fresh fruits and vegetables. You also need to make sure that you are not overconsuming or underconsuming calories. This is really about as complicated as healthy eating needs to be.
There is nothing unhealthy about a sandwich or a jacket potato and it is not healthy to be eating salads for every meal.

@Zamzamzamdeedah you did. EVERYONE with diabetes. I eat huge jacket potatoes at least twice a week, uh oh!

You did indeed because the 'a WHOLE potato is far too much carbs and that is why everyone has type 2 diabetes' crowd have now showed up. Potatoes are also high in fibre and contain vitamin C.

I agree there is a lot of confusion on the definition of healthy food.
Healthy is not strictly related to calories.
I.e. carbs are healthy, eaten in the right quantities, at the right time and if they are from quality ingredients and not ultra processed.