DH salary. AIBU?

[Suctionplease]

So I think I probably am being unreasonable but I also feel like I have a valid point which DH seems not really to take on board. I'll preface this with DH and I both work FT although he earns a lot more than me. All money is family money.

DH has been involved in a start up business with 4 others for the last six years. Until last year he was self-employed working on other contracts alongside the start up. It got to a point where the new business needed him FT and they started paying him a salary in line with the same rate as he was already on. Ultimately, this has made no material difference to us and he therefore hasn't had a pay rise in around 10 years.

The other directors in the business did not get the same salary as DH but the goal was to get to a place where the business could afford to pay them all the same rate. This means that DH will not get a pay rise until after this point. DH thinks this is only fair.

I don't think this is fair. DH has a very specialised skill, and if he were to move jobs he would get a higher rate than he's on now. They would find it very hard to replace him. Other than the CEO, the others in the business do not have specialized roles. Their salary increase puts them way above market rates for what they do. To me it would be much fairer to pay what their equivalent jobs are worth in that sector and then split profits in the form of dividends. I think I'm particularly resentful as one of the others contributes very little to the business. If he left, nothing would happen and they could probably replace him with someone better for a lot less money.

Whilst I do understand where DH is coming from it's frustrating that he can't understand why I'm frustrated. With the COL increases and our kids getting older, we have less money. My salary has increased but with that has come an increase in responsibility and demands on my time and I am really struggling.

The business has done really well this year and it won't be long until they're all on the same salary which hopefully means that in 12 months time there may (or may not) be a pay rise (I have very low expectations now).

Can you understand why I would feel frustrated by this situation:

Yes - YANBU
No - YABU

It's easy to look at these things very broadly and say "Director A isn't contributing as much as Director B", OP, but people bring all sorts of things to the party. Some directors are there because they're hands-on and understand the product. Some are great at marketing but terrible at day to day stuff. Some are great at bringing people together to work productively. Some literally just have an interest in the product and a stack of cash to put in.

Of course you're always going to be very aware of what your DH puts in because you live with him and know what he's doing. It's very easy to assume that no one else is doing as much as him when the truth is you're just very aware of what he's doing in a way that you're not for other people. I think you might find all of this a bit easier if you assume that the other director you were talking about is adding value, even if it's not something readily visible to you (or even necessarily to your DH!) day to day, and that the start-up needs all of its directors to succeed.

DH is in a good position and I acknowledge that. In terms of our current situation, it's that it hasn't materially changed despite me working. In fact, as someone up the thread highlighted, I do take on the lion's share of housework and DC etc so for me, I'm working harder than ever and the extra money that comes in covers the increase in bills. I get that we are fortunate to be able to do this though but it is hard work and things don't get easier.

DH had a contract which kept getting extended (8 years in fact). It was very flexible and allowed him to work on the start up as well as hold the contract. This is why he never looked elsewhere or negotiated a higher rate as he was able to effectively work on the start up for free. If he were to seek a new contract now, it would be for a lot more money.

I have never proclaimed that DH is solely responsible for the business. His expertise is integral to its success and development. Likewise, most of the other directors also bring skills and expertise to the table and of course the business wouldn't function without them. However, the one guy really doesn't. He talks a good game. If he left tomorrow there would be no real gap for them to fill. They have had discussions previously about managing him out but that would also come with risk. And yes I pay close attention to what's going on. Whilst DH is in the business and not me, we used our money to invest and it has been a team effort to allow him to put the time in.

have never proclaimed that DH is solely responsible for the business. His expertise is integral to its success and development. Likewise, most of the other directors also bring skills and expertise to the table and of course the business wouldn't function without them. However, the one guy really doesn't. He talks a good game. If he left tomorrow there would be no real gap for them to fill. They have had discussions previously about managing him out but that would also come with risk. And yes I pay close attention to what's going on. Whilst DH is in the business and not me, we used our money to invest and it has been a team effort to allow him to put the time in.

this is difficult op, ok so now you recognise you are unreasonable and your issue is solely with one man, whi they discussed managing out. So what is your question, you want to try to force the board to do that as you feel you know better?

Frasers I know that I'm unreasonable to expect the change but I don't feel that I'm unreasonable in thinking that the situation isn't fair in many ways or that I have a valid reason to be frustrated even if there is no realistic prospect of it being different. DH on the other hand doesn't feel it is unfair and doesn't really recognise my frustration.

However, for him there's no reason to be frustrated - he's no longer having to juggle two jobs, he's earning the same money, we're covering all the bills and probably crucially this potentially offers long term financial stability ergo there's no problem.

For me, I'm working more, with more responsibility and seemingly no let up and no extra financial reward other than to cover the cost of interest rate rises, fuel and transport. I'm looking for new jobs to increase my earnings. Meanwhile, this one bloke is effectively about to double his salary, doing a job he's shit at and which means that any increased earning potential for DH is further delayed whilst the business adjusts (and hopefully sustains) the new increases in salaries. It just grates somewhat and I feel like DH should be able to understand this.

I’m afraid I dint get it either, yoh said he earns a lot more than you. Even in this situation.

Will the company IPO? If not, or if not for years and years, the shares are pretty useless.

He does own it along with the 4 others.
OP I can see why you find it annoying but presumably it was your husband's choice to go into this start up with the others and it sounds as though he knew what he was doing.

He seems to, they have 20 employees and he’s taking such a wage out of it, he’s significantly out earning the op.

there will be a cost to removing an equity director. It isn’t as simple as rhe op thinks. And if he doesn’t want to go, there will be even bigger costs. You don’t just manage them out. You buy them out, and it will be a share of future earnings.

So your upset because your DP is sacrificing current earning potential based on a future cash out?
but for a significant amount of time others in the business sacrificed their earnings in order to pay your partner more so he could give up contracting. So their bargain was we’ll pay you less for now, but in the future you will be rewarded by being paid more than the market rate. You were happy for your DP to take the first part of the deal- but not the other side of the trade? His co-workers sacrificed by the sounds of it to keep your DP salary- now it’s payback time

I didn’t know Mumsnet was packed with people who know how start ups work.

This is gonna shock you, but women work for and with startups, and found them, too.

Haydenn - No that wasn't how it worked at all and actually some of the others got paid whilst DH didn't. They didn't get as much as him but the business needed him to be FT and we couldn't afford for him to be paid less than what he was on currently for him to do that. This has only been for the last nine months. Prior to that he received nothing from the business.

Starting business with cofounders is fraught with difficulties just like this. Some being lazier than others means if it one person's laziness is getting rewarded by the others working harder to make it work.

I empathise.

Seriously? Why would it not be, it’s clearly not packed since there is about 10 million on here, but plenty of women know exactly how start ups work. As well as businesses.

so he’s went full time nine months ago. Earning exactly what he did nine months ago, he out earns you, significantly according to you and you’re already pressurising him to earn more?

I mean this politely but it does appear you have never run a business or a start up, and have little knowledge of how one operates. Even your words. Managing a director/partner out. That’s not even feasible. Your husband is in no position to make that decision. You appear to think he can be paid what you wish and hire and fire fellow directors at will.

Should women not know how starts ups work?

Mumsnet has well over a million registered users so it is hardly surprising you are going to get folk on here with knowledge and expertise in all sorts of diverse fields.

Frasers I honestly find it hard to see how you interpret what I have written the way you do. The other directors looked at managing him out (for want of a better phrase, maybe buying him out would have been a more appropriate phrase). They obviously came to the conclusion that it was not easy/worth it etc and so have not proceeded. At no point have I expressed that I think that my DH could/should do that.

Yes DH earns more than me but I have facilitated him to be in that position. We have taken decisions together and for the good of our family which mean that his wage is more than mine. It has only been nine months, in this position, but it has been over 5 years where he has worked two jobs and where I have picked up the slack so this can happen.

I don't agree that's how it works in a start up. (I mean, it might be but I don't agree it's right). Yes to the shares, but no to the salary.

They started to pay him the market rate because they needed his skills FT. They should continue to do so, to retain his skills.

Shareholding is separate.

Ok, I will bow out. I fundamentally agree with your husband. I do not agree your position , nor do I agree that you should have a say in the running of the business in this manner ie wage, staffing etc, as it’s family money, you picked up slack so facilitated it.

I say YABU because it's not really "your" situation to be frustrated by, nor should you be able to expect your DH to share your frustration.

Also it is not your position to dictate how start-ups "should" work. They work how they work. What exactly do you want your DH to take "on board" and what exactly do you want him to do with that information?

The best that you can say is that you're frustrated on your DH's behalf and would have made a different decision in his position like maybe you would have gone for a permanent position or contract in an established company.

But it's fruitless to be frustrated about a situation you can't change and you need to let go of that frustration.

I think it is ok for the OP to express her frustrations through shouldering and facilitating this situation whilst not seeing any returns for years, despite the fact he out earns her.

It is not hard to understand her frustration if some bullshitter is being similarly paid and tolerated.

But it is also true that it doesn't appear to be her call.
Doesn't stop her being frustrated though.

i would think though that the only way OP knows this chap is a lazy arse, is because her husband has mentioned it? rather than she has done a time and motion study.

my other half is the tech side of a similar company - so he gets paid as he needs to work full time to code stuff. And the other do not as they don't work full time and just provide sales support/contacts. at some stage where they do all work full time, they can get similar salaries.

I imagine, lazy arse won't get the same full time salary as all other directors UNLESS its written into the shareholder agreement - and/or he actually does the same full time hours as others.

being a director or shareholder doesn't mean you have to be paid same salary (only dividends must be equal across same class of shares) and usually any director can be voted off by simple majority - again subject to company articles and shareholder agreememt. So you can get rid of LASYARSE as a director usually but not force them out as a shareholder. but if you are say 20% shareholder you don't have many rights beyond equal share of dividends declared - and minority shareholder protection rules.

If you’re financially comfortable and he’s happy, what’s the issue? 🤷‍♀️

I understand the stress and frustrations you describe as have seen similar with my DH in business he started a couple of decades ago. And I also get the desire to see some payback from a start up when corporate work would result in a much higher paycheck.

But I also think it’s unreasonable of you to expect him to make choices that pursue a goal of making more money when you did not prioritise this for your own career. Your choices are limited now because of choices you made years ago. Your DH hasn’t bugged you about that, has he? There will almost certainly be people where you work getting more money than you for less useful input. But you aren’t up in arms about that. You aren’t looking to change your career or reskill or convert to the corporate world so you can earn more. If you can reframe it in your head like this you might find it less frustrating - you made choices years ago for your own reasons, now DH is making choices. They both impact family finances and your DH’s choices less so than yours. These choices aren’t necessarily unreasonable if the burden isn’t unfairly distributed, there is a lot more to a working life than the money you bring in.