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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

I don’t want to pay less National Insurance, I’d like a better funded NHS

390 replies

CormorantStrikesBack · 22/11/2023 13:43

🤷‍♀️

obviously I appreciate I’m in a position to think that, but I’m not on a huge wage. I’m glad if it helps people who are struggling but I’m also worried about the nhs, school funding, etc.

They don’t seem to be managing now, I can only imagine it will get worse. There are councils going bankrupt and cutting services, respite care, libraries, etc.

id rather carry on paying what I’m paying than risk such services been funded even less.

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Tundera · 22/11/2023 16:20

It is unlikely that NHS service users will suddenly disappear seeing as how it's pretty much the entire population.

CormorantStrikesBack · 22/11/2023 16:21

NoCloudsAllowed · 22/11/2023 16:20

I think the cut is really about setting a trap for labour, they'd have to whack it back up again and that would be unpopular

The Tories see the whole thing as a game, they don't care about the actual world

You may well be right. They know that the chances are they’ll get voted out soon.

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AboutYouTalk · 22/11/2023 16:21

spillyo · 22/11/2023 16:15

The more we spend on the NHS, the crapper it gets.

Maybe the answer lies elsewhere.

The NHS isn’t crap, it’s brilliant in most areas and life saving for many. Until you need its services in life threatening situations it’s easy to slag it off but believe me they have been brilliant for family members in these predicaments. The nurses and Doctors are excellent, it’s those at the top and the government who let it down.

RedToothBrush · 22/11/2023 16:22

AutumnCrow · 22/11/2023 13:50

I don't understand how a whole class of National Insurance can be abolished and 'save' people money (Class 2s for self-employed). They can't just stop paying NI, can they, without fucking up their state pension entitlements?

So they will have to pay one of the other classes somehow (1,3,4) which will cost them a lot more? So how is it saving the self-employed money.

All this ^^ was why the idea got kicked into the long grass a few years ago.

Does anyone have any more info on this, in case the BBC is reporting it wrong?

Probably because it costs more for HMRC to process each of these returns with this extra class than if it was just processed in the same way as another class. The saving per year isn't a lot, but I can well see the time added to check this additional factor does add up.

1975wasthebest · 22/11/2023 16:24

The ‘wonderful’ NHS is shot to shit anyway, but please feel free to make voluntary contributions for the fuck load of good it will do.

Papyrophile · 22/11/2023 16:27

Leaving aside the funding, I think one reason that European health care systems achieve better outcomes is because the NHS is a monolith with GPs as gatekeepers. In France (the only place outwith the UK where I've seen the health systems at work) you can walk into any local doctor's office and take a seat. As a Brit, I pay the consultation fee and buy any prescribed drugs, or go along to a lab and deliver/collect test results. I then pass along the bills to the insurer if it's above the deductible. But the patient has more choice over the hospital or surgeon, because those are individually operated rather than ruled by the local Trusts. And the element of personal responsibility for payment means patients are more likely to take care of their health.

WearingTheHardHat · 22/11/2023 16:29

It's not a childish response to suggest you make voluntary payments to the Treasury. Do say 'I'm only a tiny drop in the ocean' is the easy way out of acting with conscience. People do it with things like climate change and we're headed for disaster. If more people actually acted and contributed more when they are able to, we'd clearly be in a lot better position wouldn't we?

Personally i don't think the NHS needs more money, it needs to be better run. There's a big difference. And there's a huge correlation between the wealth of individuals and their need for healthcare. Putting more money in people's pockets allows them to look after themselves - to put the heating on, for example, which dramatically lowers incidents of minor and serious illnesses.

edwinbear · 22/11/2023 16:29

My work staff fb group (nhs hospital) nkw has a thread on it from the hcsw saying that from April their band 2 wage is minimum wage. So they’re saying they’ll leave. Why put up with the stress if you can get the same wage working in a shop or a bar

Not going to get anywhere near the same pension contributions though are they OP.

AgnesX · 22/11/2023 16:30

infor · 22/11/2023 14:47

There is £20 billion+ ... taken from NI.

I'd like to see the reality of that figure rather a wet finger out the window. I'd also like to see the figure that goes towards pensions which is supposed to come from NI. It's not a bottomless pit.

CormorantStrikesBack · 22/11/2023 16:33

edwinbear · 22/11/2023 16:29

My work staff fb group (nhs hospital) nkw has a thread on it from the hcsw saying that from April their band 2 wage is minimum wage. So they’re saying they’ll leave. Why put up with the stress if you can get the same wage working in a shop or a bar

Not going to get anywhere near the same pension contributions though are they OP.

No, nor the unsocial hours boost for people who work nights. So yes, I agree that it might be hot air. On the other hand it might not be. It’s a tough job and everyone has their tipping point.

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SaffronSpice · 22/11/2023 16:35

CormorantStrikesBack · 22/11/2023 16:33

No, nor the unsocial hours boost for people who work nights. So yes, I agree that it might be hot air. On the other hand it might not be. It’s a tough job and everyone has their tipping point.

Not antisocial hours working in a bar or retail?

Edit. Sorry I see you mean the extra for antisocial hours

Screwballs · 22/11/2023 16:36

YAWN. Latest efforts for Tories to stay in. Why is everybody so dense these days. No one ever wins, what they give with one hand, they take with the other.

Vinvertebrate · 22/11/2023 16:40

Until you need its services in life threatening situations it’s easy to slag it off

Nah, I had cancer and it was still a shitshow (under Labour). Delayed diagnosis due to GP refusal to refer red flag symptoms, mixed wards, lying and obfuscating medical staff in a filthy hospital - it was like a Daily Mail columnist's dream. I vowed to sell my granny before being without private cover and I stand by that.

Badbadbunny · 22/11/2023 16:40

edwinbear · 22/11/2023 16:29

My work staff fb group (nhs hospital) nkw has a thread on it from the hcsw saying that from April their band 2 wage is minimum wage. So they’re saying they’ll leave. Why put up with the stress if you can get the same wage working in a shop or a bar

Not going to get anywhere near the same pension contributions though are they OP.

Nor the generous sick and maternity pay entitlements.

Badbadbunny · 22/11/2023 16:44

AboutYouTalk · 22/11/2023 16:21

The NHS isn’t crap, it’s brilliant in most areas and life saving for many. Until you need its services in life threatening situations it’s easy to slag it off but believe me they have been brilliant for family members in these predicaments. The nurses and Doctors are excellent, it’s those at the top and the government who let it down.

It's a lottery whether you find it brilliant or poor. Down to the luck of the draw as to what's wrong with you, where you're treated, etc. If you're lucky and get good healthcare professionals looking after you, then happy days. However, you're just as likely to get treated by people who havn't a clue and don't care. We need some consistency. We also need better choice and more "gateways" into the NHS rather than the default of having to go via GP surgeries unless it's an emergency. The days of the GP being the "gatekeeper" should be consigned to the history book as the typical GP today has nothing like the experience/ability of GPs 30 years ago.

CormorantStrikesBack · 22/11/2023 16:48

The Sky calculator has been updated to say Autumn 2023 calculator. Still says I’ll be £55 a year worse off. 🤷‍♀️. So not sure why I’m not benefiting from this national insurance thing…..maybe it hasn’t added that yet as doesn’t take effect till Jan. not clear. It’s car expenses, tax and fuel which are making me worse off.

OP posts:
CormorantStrikesBack · 22/11/2023 16:50

AboutYouTalk · 22/11/2023 16:21

The NHS isn’t crap, it’s brilliant in most areas and life saving for many. Until you need its services in life threatening situations it’s easy to slag it off but believe me they have been brilliant for family members in these predicaments. The nurses and Doctors are excellent, it’s those at the top and the government who let it down.

I agree that it’s not true it’s always brill8ant in life saving situations. Dd got sent away from a&e and the gp on three different occasions with a pulmonary embolism and was told she was anxious. She has permanent cardiac and lung damage. But is alive through pure luck rather than medical help.

OP posts:
Yalta · 22/11/2023 16:53

CormorantStrikesBack

Have you ever spent any time in hospital, either yourself or a family member who you spend an extended period of time visiting for 4/5/6 or even 9 months and have you ever discussed with the other patients in the ward what led them to be there

I have and I can you ask Are note of how hospitals and Gp Practices are run the only conclusion is that it wouldn’t matter how much money the NHS get they would squander it.

I spent 7 years (this was under the labour government) in absolute agony.
I couldn’t sleep because the pain was so bad.
I spent 7 years of fortnightly physio, 7 years of appointments with a consultant who never looked in my direction let alone examine me.
Wasn't interested in what had happened. If he had listened he would have known to look at my back instead of where the pain was in my hip. Screamed at me because I didn’t know the terminology for the thigh bone.

I was refused an MRI as that would cost the NHS too much (£300)
Going private someone listened to me, examined me, saw immediately the problem and sent me for an mri
I had been shuffling around with a slipped disc and in constant pain for 7 years because no one in the nhs listened

The same for my dh who asked his dr if he had bowel cancer because he was showing the signs.

If that GP had listened then at that stage it would have been an over night stay in hospital and some Chemo

Instead 6 months later the cancer had spread and even the day before I carried dh into A&E the GP was still dishing out suppositories and laxatives to dh and telling him to comeback in a fortnight.

It is both little and big things that could be avoided if someone actually lokked and listened

Little things like in the ward when a patient is leaving hospital that day the nurses come round, get the patient up and out of the bed. They then strip the bed, wipe it down and make the bed up with clean sheets

Then the patient, family members fit on the bed waiting for the doctor to discharge them

Then the nurses come round and strip the bed clean it and make up the bed with another set of clean bedding after patient has left.

I asked Why do they need to do it twice

I was told. Because that is the way we have always done it.

I could go on and on with example after example.

The NHS needs to look at how it thinks it is saving money and just stop doing those things

With me the NHS saved £300 on a mri

But then spent close to £300,000 on 7 years of wasted consultant appointments and physio sessions + being disabled I claimed disability benefits because the NHS consultant didn’t listen to me.

For dh instead of one night in hospital and a simple operation he spent 9 months in hospital and even after that we ended up having to fund his cancer care and operation to remove the cancer costing well into the 6 figures.

Asking around the wards every now and then Every single person there knew what was wrong and were only in hospital as doctors would not listen to them

Remember listening costs £0

RedGreenYellowSchmellow · 22/11/2023 16:54

it’s a ploy to underfund it so much for so long that we will ask for privatisation. Dream on tories..

infor · 22/11/2023 16:54

AgnesX · 22/11/2023 16:30

I'd like to see the reality of that figure rather a wet finger out the window. I'd also like to see the figure that goes towards pensions which is supposed to come from NI. It's not a bottomless pit.

£27,560,297 is the initial budget for 2023-24, this will increase during the year. The final budget for last financial 2022-23 was £36,266,858.
National Insurance is an element of general taxation, it could be spent on any or all government departments and their Non-Departmental Public Bodies.

MereDintofPandiculation · 22/11/2023 16:57

Mystro202 · 22/11/2023 14:10

They really need to start charging a small fee to see doctors, maybe £5. This would in turn create a better system by reducing time wasters. In Ireland you have to pay approx €60 to see a gp.

You'd have to have a fee for A&E as well, else people would turn up there instead.

And you can just imagine how well charging for A&E would work.

AlwaysGinPlease · 22/11/2023 16:57

@LunaandLily Google!

@CormorantStrikesBack neither do I! Pretty sure no worker does.

Dentalpainsucks · 22/11/2023 17:02

£565.50 better off for my household.

Better than being worse off and should pay for a night in a decent hotel somewhere - better spent on me than someone else.

Means our disposable income per month after bills and food is now £5150.00 rather than £5100.00

MereDintofPandiculation · 22/11/2023 17:03

Personally I’d be happy to pay a certain amount to see a GP if it meant I could se one. I was looking at private online GP services recently. If you charge for GP services, those for whom the charge is a signicant amount will go only when a symptom has become debilitating. They won't go to check up on things which are early signs of something more serious. So their cancer, heart disease etc will be caught only when it's at a later stage and more difficult and more expensive to treat. The existing differential in life expectancy between rich and poor will widen even further.

topnoddy · 22/11/2023 17:04

All part of the Tory Bastard's plan to privatise everything they can sell off cheap to their mates

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