Baby/Toddler groups

[NiceParkingSpotRitaThanksJanet]

I have a recently turned 2 year old who admittedly is very "on the go" and loves to be outdoors. I work 3 days a week (30 hours) his dad does full time in 4 days and we have family childcare the other 2 days.

We have been to a few baby/toddler groups and each time I find that the more structured ones leave me feeling like a shit mum with a feral child. Yesterday we went to a music class. My son was wandering a bit as he does, and at one point put on one of the adults wellies (which was hilarious) before I noticed. They got this parachute thing out where everyone holds it in a circle and moves it up and down. He was absolutely delighted by this and wanted to jump on it, I obviously moved him immediately but he kept going to do the same thing and I could see the leader getting annoyed.

Throughout the group she made several references to him not sitting on my knee and saying things like "we aren't running round, sit on my knee or mummys" - to be fair to him he wasn't running, more wandering with the train I can't get him to put down, and sporadically coming over to me for a quick cuddle or to join in. He then found some bubbles which we have a lot of at home and excitedly brought them over to me, I of course returned them however was told to put them out of his reach (which I was going to anyway!) He's very gentle, wasn't hurting anyone and sometimes just wanted to look or play with his train (or crawl under the chairs at the back of the hall!) Most of the other kids were sat obediently on their parents knees and I'm not sure if I'm paranoid but I did feel like my child was "that child" and that I've done something wrong.

He's always been active, inquisitive and doesn't like to sit still but he's not aggressive and he just loves being with other children, which is why I like to take him to groups if I can.

Am I that parent with the feral child? Or do other people find these groups difficult too?!

Not all groups are for all children as children are so different. One of mine sat still beautifully, but she was so shy she rarely joined in. Whereas the other would wander all over the place, couldn’t sit still but loved the activities.

It doesnt mean there is anything wrong with you or your child or your group, but some children are suited to different groups more.

I'd just take him to a non-structured group from now on - you know, mums sitting with tea, a big pile of toys and kids running round. That's the only group I ever took mine to.

"Feral" for wanting to move around and getting bored - he's two! He's fine, you're fine, the music lessons don't suit him.

I think it’s good for children to get some practice of more structured activities. If he’s not ready for it, then don’t force it, but at some point he’ll have to learn that different environments have different expectations (e.g. when everyone is sitting in a circle, he sits down too).

It sounded from your post (and I may have got this wrong) that you were just letting him wander around rather than asking him to come and sit on your knee? The group leader’s instructions were probably for your benefit rather than his!

Omg I could have written this myself. I have sworn off toddler groups for a little while because I just get so upset afterwards, I feel like everyone is judging me.

If it makes you feel better, my mom says that I was equally feral when she used to go to stay and play groups with me. She absolutely hated them so never took me after going to a few and realising I couldn't be tamed. She was a SAHM and I didn't go to anything formal until reception. I'm a relatively normal adult and I did well in school, so there's hope for our little feral toddlers yet!

No idea about OP's situation, but my eldest has also just turned two like OP's and RE your last point - this is what I'm having trouble with. I can tell him to sit on my knee until the cows come home, but if he's in a big hall with loads of space to run around then that is exactly what he will do. I could physically stop him and put him on my knee, but he would just scream and wriggle, and presumably ruin the activity for everyone even more so than him just running about in the background.

Is it abnormal for a just turned 2yo to just ignore instructions like this?

No I don’t think it’s abnormal for a 2 year old not to be able to sit still (some can, some can’t).

But some parents will kind of encourage their child to be disruptive in groups.. e.g. their child will be running round screaming, standing on chairs or doing something they shouldn’t and the parent will be like haha he’s so cute. Instead of trying to distract/ redirect into something that’s less disruptive for the rest of the group.

(I’m absolutely not saying that’s what you or the OP are doing … it’s just an example).

Yeah, I am the same. My toddler used to go to a rhyme time every week... Until it wasn't stimulating enough anymore and he would be pulling books of the shelf (it was at a library) and trying to walk away. I saw this as our cue to change groups and went to a stay and play at the local church hall instead. He loves it and is really well behaved there... Just more active. It isn't a reflection on your child, they are just more suited to different types of groups xx

Post lock down, i tried to find a 'casual' unstructured toddler group as i didnt want to come out of a group feeling shitty for those exact reasons.

I couldn't, so i set my own one up in the end. Drink coffee, have a biscuit, a chat and let your child go play was my mantra.

Dont feel bad, youve done nothing wrong and i find most people end up feeling that way from structured groups.

Oh I definitely kept telling him and sometimes going to get him to sit him on my knee, he would stay for a second then be off again!

Haha mine did this at the library group too...

There are a couple of unstructured ones nearby but they are all so early we end up missing them (try as I might he's a late sleeper and wakes up about 8.30) that's a whole other issue!

That is quite reassuring! My mum goes "you were never like this"! Apparently I used to just sit and want books read to me. To this day I'm not very physically active (lazy...) having my son has certainly forced me to get off my arse!

My issue is that even the casual sit down and have a cup of tea type of groups, all the ones round me always seem to finish off with circle time with singing and stories. So even if I get through the session with no incidents, I am left mortified by the ending part.

The worst is if they do story time with a book like how they do at library rhyme times. My 2yo will invariably repeatedly try and take the book out of the hands of the person reading to the group. The first time everyone laughs, haha how sweet they all chuckle, and I tell him not to and move him away. But then he will just go back again and again, the second he is free to do so no matter what I do. People, quite reasonably, start to get annoyed 😭

When mine were little it took some time to find non-judgmental baby groups - I remember one with really patronising signs on the wall saying “Please do not look on your phones - your baby deserves more attention than your phone”. 🙄 I walked out. I also did one of those awful singing ones but lots of the toddlers would wander off from the circle to play at the side. These toddlers would then be shushed like crazy by people in the circle who behaved like a load of squawking mums and toddlers were the equivalent to the New York Philharmonic choir.

I found the ones with little structure and lots of choices of activity were the best. But I’d have no time for a group that can’t tolerate toddlers being toddlers!

Another bad one is when I go to a group and then I'm surprise-attacked with being expected to help tidy up at the end.

I have no problem helping. But my 2 year old does. He will run round taking toys out of boxes getting very upset that people are putting the toys away. I hobble after him holding my youngest, trying in vain to stop him undoing everyone's hard work, whilst all the other toddlers are helpfully and happily putting things away.

It's so embarrassing. I can hardly just leave when they announce its tidy up time even though that would probably be the most helpful thing for all involved.

I have no idea why he hates it so much as he's quite happy tidying up his toys at home, so I don't really know what to do about it!

I go to structured classes at BusyLizzy and my son is always the "feral" one. He loves running round the hall and playing with the parachute. No one has ever batted an eye about it and most of the mums know him by name and seem to love his funny antics. The leaders are lovely with him. The leader at your group sounds awful! Try a different one?

Don't feel shame about your child. He's doing nothing wrong.

I’d choose different groups if I were you. I think it’s less a case of you being a shit mum with a feral child, and more a case of that group being aimed at children who were like you were as a child; happy to sit still and watch what’s going on. They’re not better or worse, they’re just different. The leader can huff and puff as much as they like, but it’s unrealistic to expect that every toddler is going to be happy doing that. I wonder whether your DC is the only one doing it because the leader has made the mums of all similar tots feel equally as awkward so they’ve gone elsewhere?

Our little person isn’t feral (just as yours isn’t) and will sometimes just sit or choose a book and sit still looking at the pictures while I’m sat next to him zooming to the moon (I swear I’ve seen him roll his eyes at me) but he does like to have a wander about and see what’s what. He has never agreed to be a sleepy bunny, ever. But that’s a good thing. They’ve got confidence, curiosity and independence.

We go to a rhyme time at a library, having tried a couple, and this one is fine with them toddling about, as long as the adults are supervising so they don’t go near the stairs or try and escape. He also goes to a Fun Tots (a stay and play thing), a football class and a woodland thing where they all get into their wellies and play in mud kitchens, jump in puddles, find conkers etc, and a baby swim thing. It’s trial and error to find the groups that suit his personality. And he’s thriving in them because the leaders understand that the world will not end if he wants to look at an earwig rather than find a nice leaf to make a picture with.

I used to hate groups like this. The leaders often have really unrealistic expectations of children. Go to a non structured one where your kid can run around a play and you can drink coffee.

There are different types of groups. If your child can’t cope with the more structured ones then you need to leave it and try again in a few weeks.

We do a mixture of free play groups and then more structure classes of dance/theatre/gym/sensory.

My expectations are clear: you either sit with mummy or the leader and you join in with the activity. If you don’t, we leave the room and have a moment and try again. If you still can’t, we will leave the activity and try again next time.

Your son isn’t the problem here, but it sounds like you’re not dealing with him at all and just allowing him to run roughshod without keeping an eye on him.

You didn’t even notice he was bothering other people and putting on their shoes? You know he’s like this, so how did you miss this?

I did mention a bit further up that I kept retrieving him/asking him to sit with me. Re the shoes - this happened in a matter of seconds, the parachute thing was up and he ran under it/to the wellies so I had no eyes on him for maybe 5/10 seconds when he managed to get a welly on!

My eldest is like this. I have given up and we just go to play cafes/playgroups etc.

It's not worth the stress!

There are lots of different types of groups with different expectations, so just try a different one each week to see what suits you. I'm a sahm and take my toddler to a different group or class every day. My dc's have been used to them since babies so they understood circle time from a young age and just needed gentle guiding to sit and listen at the right time. But all the groups have been fine with them wandering off especially when they're younger. There are always a few toddlers who aren't sitting and it's not a big deal. Some stay and play groups don't have circle time and it's just free play. But I think it's useful to learn sitting and listening skills as they get closer to nursery age as they'll need it in any group childcare or at school.

My two are/were both like this! Felt so judged by group leaders and other parents when I went to structured classes, it made me feel so down.

We only go to unstructured play groups now - ones where all of the kids a running around being feral and the parents get to have a cuppa. It’s so much better and we all enjoy it much more!

Not all kids are the same, and that’s fine. My eldest is almost three now, and is getting a lot better at sitting still for an activity. They all get there eventually.

Okay, but why are you just allowing him to behave like this? Why are there no clear expectations?

Why, when it is clear he won’t listen to you, do you just let him carry on in vein wandering around behind him going “oh don’t do that!” instead of removing him from the situation and allowing him to experience consequences?

DS2 (who is autistic with learning disabilities) always hated tidy up time at toddler group.

One time he was trying to get a box of toys I was taking to the cupboard and when I said "no, it's tidy up time now" he glared at me and slapped the ass of a dad who had his back to us. The dad whipped round, looked at me, looked down at DS2 and laughed.

So my threshold for "embarrassing behaviour at toddler group" is fairly high.😅

Having said that, mums who need to hold their babies/keep them from being trampled were always let off from tidying at my old toddler group, which was quite friendly.

What consequences would you suggest? Take him home?