Page 3 | To Not Understand This Prison Sentence

QuizzlyBears · 21/11/2023 03:32

There’s specific legislation relating to age at sentencing - the guideline is generally that the individual is sentenced as the age they were when they committed the offence. It accounts for crossing the threshold between youth and adulthood.

GuessItsANameChange · 21/11/2023 03:45

WhereIsBebèsChambre · 21/11/2023 03:23

More than the video footage shows? So you think that this man could have said that excuses them surrounding him and killing him?
Did he 'disrespect' them so he deserved to be beaten to show their superiority?

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I don’t think it’s unreasonable that there must have been some vague plausibility to the self defence argument, given that this was his second trial.

Robinnuts · 21/11/2023 05:57

LargeSquareRock · 20/11/2023 02:04

Why? The victim is dead either way. I don’t think prison will do the young adults who murdered my uncle any good either. They had awful lives- Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, all 3 grew up in violent homes full of sexual abuse and domestic violence, low iqs. But that’s not the point- the point is that custodial sentences can bring some comfort to the families of victims, knowing that the attackers can’t hurt anyone else for a long time. It shouldn’t solely be about whether prison will help the rehab of the perpetrators- there are other factors at play that matter.

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I agree with this. Way too much thinking / time / effort is ploughed into the best outcome for the offender, without thinking about the best outcome for the victim.

I’d happily pay higher taxes to keep these sorts of people in prison longer. They need to learn actions have consequences.

Codies · 21/11/2023 06:46

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Codies · 21/11/2023 06:47

Yeah let's just have no consequences for anyone under age of 16, Jamie bulger and John venebales didn't benefit from prison should of let them off with a slip on the wrist by your logic

curaçao · 21/11/2023 07:23

myotherkidisacassowary · 20/11/2023 05:38

The judge will have received reports on the perpetrator which will have factored into sentencing.

The major factor here will be the fact that the perpetrator was assessed by a doctor as having the mental age of a 13 year old. That will have significantly impacted on his decision making ability and impulse control.

“One punch” manslaughter cases also often attract lower sentences because there is generally not an intention to kill (albeit there is reckless disregard for life).

This is a desperately sad situation and the family of that poor man will have to live with the trauma of his death forever. I feel terribly sorry for them all. It is usually the case that the sentencing of a crime like manslaughter feels inadequate to ‘compensate’ for the loss suffered, because justice and retribution are not identical aims, and we don’t try to achieve the latter in this country.

This sentence reflects what the judge, having access to all the relevant information and considering societal aims, feels is the most proportionate and fitting outcome for the perpetrator. It can’t, and isn’t intended to, be proportionate to the grief and loss resulting from the crime.

I hope this poor man’s family and friends can find some peace moving forward.

A 13 year old knows it is wrong too! I would have expected a 13 year ild to get at least 5 years for this
Hopefully this leniency will be appealed!

WhereIsBebèsChambre · 21/11/2023 07:26

GuessItsANameChange · 21/11/2023 03:45

I don’t think it’s unreasonable that there must have been some vague plausibility to the self defence argument, given that this was his second trial.

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Or he's just a pathetic little shit who doesn't want to face up to the reality that he's killed someone?
Although i wonder exactly what an 82 year old could say to an aggressive gang of teenagers that made then feel so threatened they felt all they could do as a group was physically attack him?

Boomboom22 · 21/11/2023 16:19

It should be irrelevant. Actions have consequences and there should be no excuses when those actions are criminal. It doesn't matter how cognitively impaired you are or how disabled you are if you are a danger to others that must be addressed. Actually addressed not just say its ablist to even consider consequences if someone doesn't really fully know what they are doing. Proper education and supported living if required not oh they can't help being impulsive so it's OK to just lash out then.

Mutters123 · 21/11/2023 16:32

If this was a member of my family I would be absolutely outraged at this pathetic sentence. I bet those of you trying to make excuses for the perpetrator would not be spouting this shit if it was one of your relatives either. I think my kids knew it wasn’t ok to punch and kill someone by about 5 let alone 13. There are absolutely no excuses, plenty of us have had hard lives but still know it’s not ok to go around punching people. If he’s really that mentally impaired that he’s a danger to society then he shouldn’t be out without adult supervision. I really despair at some of the bullshit going on in this country at the moment!

tommika · 21/11/2023 16:42

Paul2023 · 20/11/2023 00:18

This story below;

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/teenager-18-who-killed-pensioner-31467962.amp

Two years in a youth prison for killing an 82 year old pensioner?

The poor gentleman could have been our father or grandfather. All for challenging a group of youths behaviour.

It’s harder to understand the sentencing from that link because the Daily Mirror have reported it as 2 years for murder, and then further down the article that he was convicted of manslaughter

All sentencing is on a scale, and for manslaughter it is between 1 and 24 years of custody.

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/crown-court/item/unlawful-act-manslaughter/

Culpability in manslaughter of A-C have an intent to cause harm, and the sentence is 2 years which indicates the court did not find that level of intent, and 2 years is the starting point.

Then any aggravating and/or mitigating factors can increase or decrease the sentence. The final sentence remained at 2 years so either there was no change or both aggravating and mitigating factors balanced each other out

Unlawful act manslaughter – Sentencing

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/crown-court/item/unlawful-act-manslaughter/

GuessItsANameChange · 21/11/2023 16:48

tommika · 21/11/2023 16:42

It’s harder to understand the sentencing from that link because the Daily Mirror have reported it as 2 years for murder, and then further down the article that he was convicted of manslaughter

All sentencing is on a scale, and for manslaughter it is between 1 and 24 years of custody.

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/crown-court/item/unlawful-act-manslaughter/

Culpability in manslaughter of A-C have an intent to cause harm, and the sentence is 2 years which indicates the court did not find that level of intent, and 2 years is the starting point.

Then any aggravating and/or mitigating factors can increase or decrease the sentence. The final sentence remained at 2 years so either there was no change or both aggravating and mitigating factors balanced each other out

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That is for adults, though - it could have been medium culpability but the shorter sentence reflects his age.

DisquietintheRanks · 21/11/2023 17:00

Paul2023 · 20/11/2023 22:53

But he’ll be out in two years , probably more violent and more dangerous than before. I bet he’s laughing about in prison now .

I worked in a prison for 18-25 years old some years ago so I’m not totally naive to prisons or the law.

That young man is a danger to the public and he’ll be dangerous once he’s released. But that’s the UK for you. The UK is becoming dangerous.

You worked in prisons and you think he's laughing about being in one? I don't believe you.

My knowledge of prisons is fairly minimal compared to yours but ime there's precious little laughter.

DisquietintheRanks · 21/11/2023 17:02

Boomboom22 · 21/11/2023 16:19

It should be irrelevant. Actions have consequences and there should be no excuses when those actions are criminal. It doesn't matter how cognitively impaired you are or how disabled you are if you are a danger to others that must be addressed. Actually addressed not just say its ablist to even consider consequences if someone doesn't really fully know what they are doing. Proper education and supported living if required not oh they can't help being impulsive so it's OK to just lash out then.

And where is this proper education and support then? Put that in place and your argument might hold water.

Rouleur · 21/11/2023 17:05

Codies · 20/11/2023 20:36

Can anyone find the name of the judge?? He/she should be boycotted and forced out of a job!!!

How do you boycott a judge? Refuse to attend any trial that they are presiding over? Good luck with that.

GirrlCrush · 21/11/2023 21:50

@DisquietintheRanks

There's laughter...believe me!

Theoriginalmrscillianmurphy · 21/11/2023 21:55

I was given a 2.5 year sentence and didn't hurt a fly.

Bonkers.

Original poster

Paul2023 · 22/11/2023 00:10

DisquietintheRanks · 21/11/2023 17:00

You worked in prisons and you think he's laughing about being in one? I don't believe you.

My knowledge of prisons is fairly minimal compared to yours but ime there's precious little laughter.

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You’re really quite naive aren’t you then ?

Prisons with young offenders are full of gangs and believe me there’s lots of bragging and laughter in there. Lots of bravado and swagger.

Some people sneer and abuse the judge as they are sentenced.

OP posts:

DisquietintheRanks · 22/11/2023 08:21

@Paul2023 exactly- bravado. They're not really happy or indifferent about incarceration and it's not a nice holiday for them. Ime our prisons are full of young men suffering trauma, addiction, or with unsupported disabilities or mental health difficulties. Serious fucked up individuals.

Lifelessordinary1 · 22/11/2023 08:30

The report in the press will almost certainly not have contained all the information available to the judge at sentencing. Press reports contain the most sensationalist aspects and often miss out completely other factors.

MichelleScarn · 22/11/2023 08:39

@Lifelessordinary1 so are you also thinking that there can be 'reasons' why a self defense or any aspects of the killers behaviour could be justified or excusable?

GirrlCrush · 22/11/2023 21:47

I agree @Lifelessordinary1

Also @MichelleScarn what on earth are you talking about? It's a fact!

Catsmere · 22/11/2023 21:57

Codies · 21/11/2023 06:47

Yeah let's just have no consequences for anyone under age of 16, Jamie bulger and John venebales didn't benefit from prison should of let them off with a slip on the wrist by your logic

Robert Thompson and Jon Venables. James Bulger was their victim.

Lifelessordinary1 · 23/11/2023 09:18

MichelleScarn · 22/11/2023 08:39

@Lifelessordinary1 so are you also thinking that there can be 'reasons' why a self defense or any aspects of the killers behaviour could be justified or excusable?

I'm suggesting nothing - i am stating that the judge would have had far more information about what happened on that day than the press will have reported.