To Not Understand This Prison Sentence

[Paul2023]

This story below;

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/teenager-18-who-killed-pensioner-31467962.amp

Two years in a youth prison for killing an 82 year old pensioner?

The poor gentleman could have been our father or grandfather. All for challenging a group of youths behaviour.

It sounds like there were mitigating factors.

The perpetrator seems to have had some significant issues/difficulties.

They also put forward a self-defence argument which is interesting. So whilst it's obviously no excuse at all, I suspect the 'altercation' wasn't as straightforward as quiet little old man suddenly set upon and attacked.

How do you boycott a judge?! Refuse to be sentenced by them? You go ahead and do that Codies. What are you up for?

I agree that people on prisons have had rough childhoods, as I said I’ve worked in them so am quite aware of this.

But when innocent people become victims of a senseless murder , that’s not their fault either.

The justice system will never change because there isn’t the money or resources.

I wonder if some of the posters on here realise the cost of imprisoning people?
Currently the average cost of keeping someone in prison in the UK is over £46k/year. If only that sort of money was being made available to support young people experiencing what the OP called "rough" childhoods, we might have fewer violent offenders.

But after someone has committed a crime , a serious crime where someone has died , what else can you do but put them in prison?

Of course it costs a lot of money. Someone that spends over 30 years in prison for a serious murder or murders probably costs over a million pounds. But what alternatives are there after they’ve already come the offence?

Can anyone find the name of the judge?? He/she should be boycotted and forced out of a job!!!

You can't boycott a bloody judge. He's not Nestle. Do you know anything about the law & sentencing guidelines? No. Thought not.

Check any video comments on the matter, check the common answer in this thread and maybe think that you're the common denominator, this sentence is q joke. You shouldn't be so ignorant to believe you know what everyone thinks the justice system is broken already and only a fool would claim otherwise.

Most people in prison have had abusive or neglectful childhoods and suffer mental health issues

I don't disagree with your post myself I think you have a fair point but you could look at threads All over mums net but especially Relationships and threads like But We Took You To Stately Homes and conclude that a significant portion of Mumsnetters have had those kinds of childhoods and subsequent MH problems. I mean 1 in 4 girls will have some kind of unwanted sexual contact (so sexual abuse in other words) before the age of 18, I think that's most of us.

So although childhood abuse and MH are a factor I think there are others. Perhaps socio e economic factors as well or lack of communities ? Fewer people believing in a faith or a good cause? A sense of hopelessness about the future ? Lack of employment or education prospects?

So I guess I can understand how this sentence sticks in the craw a bit of so many of us, many of us didn't have a brilliant start in life either. That's why it's important for professionals working with young people to not only address the abuse and mental health side of it but also the socio economic disadvantages faced by many young people who end up in the criminal justice system and the daily sense of hopelessness they feel if they are facing unemployment or lack of higher education or training.

Well Josef feitzel is out this year I think: there needs to be a difference between kids who can be supported and change their life and complete psychopaths

That is an appalling mindset. The murdered victim dared to remonstate with this thug and his gang for acting dangerously on steps, they followed him to the bus station, surrounded him and this vile 16 year old attacked and killed him.
'Mitigating circumstances' by this I am assuming you think there are circumstances when it's OK to assault and kill someone?

... I mean 1 in 4 girls will have some kind of unwanted sexual contact (so sexual abuse in other words) before the age of 18, I think that's most of us.

Nope, that's not "most of us". That's "many" (far too many) of us, but not "most".

Seems like his shitty 'self defence' argument wasn't upheld. Detective Inspector Mark Shaw, who led the investigation into Mr Clarke’s death, said: “Our investigation was assisted by the capture of CCTV footage and many witness accounts, all of which were presented during the trial. The defendant claimed he acted in self-defence, and the jury on the balance and high threshold required refused to accept his version of events.”
I honestly can't believe that they're basically saying 'poor lamb, prison will be hard for him, best not send him there' no wonder crime is so high!

Ok not but most but a significant amount of us . A lot of us score highly on the Adverse Childhood Experiences checklist.

Which shows that abuse is just one factor in making someone a criminal, my point is that so many of us had that same trauma but we didn't turn to crime. Suggesting that it's way more complex than that. But that doesn't mean it doesn't count of course .

Yeah, sorry about the pedantry. I am also one of the "one in four" and haven't turned to violent crime.

I do agree with this. Children's brains are pretty neuroplastic. Robert Thompson and Mary Bell were both rehabilitated successfully. I think children have a chance. The difference being though is that they had many more years inside, therefore a greater chance of being helped before being unleashed onto the general public.

Perhaps Mary Bell is a bad example as she has stated that she strangled children as a clear cry for help and a way she could be sent away from her evil abusive mother. It was a very conscious cry motive rather than the mind of a psychopath. I don't believe she was insane she knew what she was doing and once able to process some of her abuse I think that's what helped her. She did an evil thing but I'm not sure she was truly evil or insane. She showed insight which most sociopaths don't.

Ian Brady on the other hand was very psychotic and could never be normal. A nasty piece of work.

I am too. Abuse of every type on top of that.

no need to apologise.

to you too.

More sleight of hand being employed here. The thug is 18 but is mentally 13 which translates to mean actually 13. Which gets him a more lenient sentence. Age has nothing to do with a criminal nature.

The thing is, most 13 year olds know it is wrong to gang up on and batter an old man. Nothing about this sentence or the understanding.he is being shown will teach this thug that there are consequences for his actions. And the reason we have so many young thugs running about is that they are.never held to account for anything that they do.

Absolutely @SammyScrounge especially when there are so many apologists for them.
'Oh he's so frustrated at his lack of prospects.. what else is there for him to channel this anger in killing someone he's the real victim'.
So he can't control himself from killing someone, surely even after prison he will then require 24/7 supervision then in the community if this is the risk he is?

Pretty much everyone in the dock on a violence-related charge tries to claim "self-defence". If you go after someone, then it's not self-defence.

We only know what's been reported in the media possibly there was more to this case than we know. Without seeing the actual case reports from the court.

This is the most stupid comment I've read on mumsnet since I joined roughly 10 years ago. Please use some brain cells.

More than the video footage shows? So you think that this man could have said that excuses them surrounding him and killing him?
Did he 'disrespect' them so he deserved to be beaten to show their superiority?

Useful blog here re sentencing in this type of case:

https://www.mountfordchambers.com/blog-one-punch-manslaughter-one-size-does-not-fit-all/#:~:text=A%20single%20punch%20most%20commonly,charged%20as%20unlawful%20act%20manslaughter.