To think State education is really poor?

[Boswelian]

We sent our eldest to a taster day at a private school. He was agog. His school don't allow playing on the grass when it's wet. The private school change them into waterproofs and wellies for break. PE 3x a week. Sport every day. Dedicated specialist teaching in art, DT, languages, sciences etc. 16 in a class instead of 30. The difference in the quality of life between the two school has really blown my mind. The state school is "outstanding". The private school reckon DS is 2 years behind their curriculum. We've been told in state that he's meeting expectations. How is this remotely acceptable?

@Charlie2121
I'm not sure why your reading skills are lacking, schools and house prices were not a factor in where I live.
After several life changing events I actually moved quite hurriedly and tbf impulsively, a roof over my children's heads was my priority, not league tables, at the time I didn't own a house!

I should start by saying I’m not originally British and my only direct experience of U.K. schools are private (my own education and my children’s).

As many have said whether it’s worth it to any one person depends on their personal circumstances. I pay private because it’s what I think is best suited and because of the rounded education it offers of sport, drama, art etc. in an atmosphere that is generally conducive to and values education. I don’t have the time to find all these opportunities separately. And I value them. Could they do just as well in the local state primary academically? Maybe. I can see no obvious difference with the children of my friends in local states. I don’t know if there will be a more obvious difference in secondary school.

That said there are clearly some private schools with tough exams that teach just very smart kids (Westminster, St Paul’s etc) and I’m sure work at a pace and level that would not be easily recognised in most other schools private or state.

Potential downsides - yes some private school children can have a bad attitude or sense of superiority. I would hate that and crush it immediately if I see any signs of this. But it applies not just to schools but holidays, shoes - anything material. Social mix - I think it can depend. You do lose that but I’m
also not sure if ever missed that in my own life. Social mix at private school can be broad even if not economically. I like that international outlook. Concerns about kids being envious of others more extravagant lifestyles? Well that’s life and it’s a good chance to learn what’s important.

Final point - I work in what might be called an ‘elite’ job (‘elite’ as views may differ 😬) but I really generally have little idea who was a private school or not apart from the odd obvious person. I do suspect most went to private, grammars, top comprehensives, which is surely where the real divide lies.

Private school is a business, so will look very shiny.

I know a few private schools have closed due to their size and the kids are sent all the place.

I'm all for a choice us education but I think we would better going down the Finnish route no private schools and better overall state facilities

The Finnish system has some great features such as the focus on high quality early years, not starting formal school till 7 etc., but my understanding is that they are facing quite a few issues now including in secondary.

The ability to study at university at little cost is also great. I’ve brown people to use their three year maternity leave with low cost child care ☺️ to study and retrain so they can return to the work force in a stronger position. Unfathomable as a option here for most people I think…

@BonjourCrisette as a point of information-you talk about the "ridiculous eBacc." Which subject from English lang and lit, a science, a language and one of History or Geography do you think is ridiculous?

The '2 years behind' is BS and intended to sell you the private school. My DD joined private in year 7 and had no issues keeping up with her peers who came from the prep.

Well for a start private schools aren't bound by the national curriculum which gives them a lot more freedom to offer niche subjects. DD in Yr 7 does French, Latin and Classics. In Yr 8 she can add either Spanish or German. In Yr 9 she then can choose 2 of either French, German or Spanish for GCSE plus either classics or Latin.
No restriction on science, triple is
Music twice a week plus singing once a week. Fully stocked rehearsal rooms and option of 2-3 instruments per child over Yrs 7-9.
Drama studio + small theatre, 3 drama lessons per week.
Sports are on rotation basis with 4 double games lessons a week ( for girls): hockey, football, netball, running, cricket, athletics, gymnastics and swimming. All children encouraged to find "their" sport but all represent the school frequently in either A,B or C teams no matter their ability.
Can choose up to 11 GCSEs and no limit of eg either History OR geography.
All of the above taught by qualified specialist teachers.
There are then 2 sessions of compulsory activity time per week where they do something they are interested in eg chess club, gardening, baking, cooking, debating, politics, environment etc.

As I said before, for us it isn't about results at the end, it us about the journey and giving her chance to find what she is interested in before the next stage in life.

The UK national curriculum is designed the way it is so children access it in a spiral, planting seeds then revisiting them to nurture them until they grow into massive trees of understanding.

Whilst I’d love to believe this, I just don’t see how anyone could?! The people who design these things are the same people who came up with Year 6 SATS!

On a different note, no self-respecting private school would tell prospective parents that the state schools were ‘two years behind’! What dreadful nonsense that would be in any case.

I do think, though, that comparing results is sometimes a waste of time. Many bright kids will do well at private or state. It may not make a marked difference. In addition, there’s no reason to believe that the actual teaching is any better in private. What’s different is the class sizes, which means far less disruption, and the ability to remove students who don’t toe the line. For those things alone, I think private equals a nicer experience for pupils and one that I’d be willing to pay for.

I think it needs to be decided what a basic state education should provide.

In my mind:

Kids should be allowed to study what they want at A-level. Schools should accommodate this regardless of timetabling issues.

No child should be allowed to physically assault other pupils or disrupt classes on an ongoing basis and remain in the school. A different provision is needed.

Teachers and other school staff should have a decent pay (that ensures teaching positions are filled) and time ought to be put aside for their development / marking etc.

There should be a specialist subject teacher teaching each subject.

School buildings should be safe and adequately equipped with text books, science equipment etc.

The above basics are not currently being met in the state sector and that is totally unacceptable. A truly basic education is not being provided. That’s why people feel the need to go to private school.

@Christmasaaarrrggghhh add to that an innovative and engaging curriculum that broadens thinking and values learning for the sake of learning instead of the current Gove exam factory one.

Well educated enough to work in factories and join the forces but that’s about it.

@BethDuttonsTwin "Well educated enough to work in factories and join the forces but that’s about it."

So 93% of the population work in factories or are in the forces? Interesting.

No and I didn’t say they did. I was agreeing with “not wanting a well educated population” comment as was pretty clear. Educated enough to carry out the donkey work but not educated enough to organise and throw off the status quo. Didn’t you understand that?

They have all the at DC state school including the small classes. It also gets better results than the local private schools.

Guess it depends where you live.

@Willyoujustbequiet definitely depends on where you live! I would be surprised if any state school could afford 18-20 per class though but I am happy to be wrong.

If you're already a solicitor then you didn't g to school under a Tory government since 2010...

I live in a rural county. The average according to the stats county wide is currently 17 but DC class is 8 at the moment.

@HerMammy I think it's less that the state school kids are behind and more that the private school kids are expected to be working ahead. 2 years seems excessive though.

Plenty are though. Its a horrendously over subscribed profession which I'm advising dc against.

Primary or secondary? We were rural primary and yes 16 in DDs class which is why we chose state for primary however for secondary that jumped to 30-35 per class. In my own humble experience primaries can offer an equivalent to private however this gets a lot more difficult at secondary. Our local state secondaries are very poor (not according to Ofsted but by the experience of parents we know who send their kids there/results etc).

@BethDuttonsTwin "Educated enough to carry out the donkey work but not educated enough to organise and throw off the status quo. Didn’t you understand that?"
Yes, I do understand that. Do you think that's how it is? That 93% of the school population is destined for the "donkey work"?

Other than emphasising that privilege is real, what is the actual point of your post?

The very old, very famous private secondary in our town charges £45000 a year but didn’t manage to get a single child to Oxbridge last year. One year they taught the wrong syllabus for the English exam and last week the nationals were full of stories about a teacher using inappropriate sexual language to students. They are not better, they are just more exclusive and that is the appeal. Sports facilities are amazing though!

Also, I’m a primary teacher at an outstanding school and have had children transfer from the local private. When I received their books the work was dull, uninspiring and of poor quality and the judgements were far too high for the quality of work evident. However, he was good at sailing.

@thegreenlight that's because not all private = good and not all state = bad. Very area dependent. Every school and child is individual so as a parent all you can do is find the best fit for your child.