To think State education is really poor?

[Boswelian]

We sent our eldest to a taster day at a private school. He was agog. His school don't allow playing on the grass when it's wet. The private school change them into waterproofs and wellies for break. PE 3x a week. Sport every day. Dedicated specialist teaching in art, DT, languages, sciences etc. 16 in a class instead of 30. The difference in the quality of life between the two school has really blown my mind. The state school is "outstanding". The private school reckon DS is 2 years behind their curriculum. We've been told in state that he's meeting expectations. How is this remotely acceptable?

They’re not. Labour backtracked on that one.

The problem is thar so many people assume parents send DC to private schools to get better outcomes ie GCSE grades when that's actually far from the truth for many. We send DD private for the broader curriculum and learning environment. She will get what she gets, we aren't expecting all grades 7-9 in return.

Your view on one state school Vs one private, doesn't give an overall balance. Of course there's more to offer at private schools, the extortionate fees make that to be expected. Most state schools are grossly underfunded, and rely on donations and fundraisers, a heavily involved pta, and well managed budgets to do well. Obviously not all are going to get it spot on, and many are struggling to keep their heads above water, but alot of schools try extremely hard to do whatever they can, and create as many gr at opportunities as possible. My children's primary school is brilliant, really can't fault how much effort they put in, and how much they organise. The PTA are very active, and do alot in the way of fundraising to be able to offer extra curricular activities and organise educational trips and events for the children. And above all, it's the community feeling that I don't think can be replicated in the same way in private settings. Our school is heavily linked with the local church, and the children get involved with lots of community projects and events through that connection. If I had the money, sure private school may have been a route we'd looked down, but it wasn't an option, and in a way, I'm slightly glad, as the state school (we were very lucky to get a place at) has excelled our expectations, and I love how much it's widened our involvement with our local community, and the children are both thriving there.

Your precious Blair ... the first thing he did was introduce university tuition fees. How short a memory you have.

And get rid of the assisted places scheme.

Let’s judge private schools on a level playing field as the state sector who are dealing with all the additional social work and the behavioural responses of traumatised and poorly parented children.

I think they’d come up short quite frankly.

But let’s be honest, it’s not about the schooling or the resources. Ultimately they are elite enclaves for sharp elbowed parents who want to buy privilege for their children and a guarantee that their precious offspring never have to rub along with the chavs.

And a more personal individual environment where the attitude is more client than otherwise @twistyizzy

My daughter did better at gcse at a state school than any of my friends' children at private school. So it depends on your priorities I guess.

For me education isn't about drilling in maths and English and which grades you get at GCSE. I'd much rather they have time to explore and play (not to mention learn to critically think). Our current state primary has wellies but they use them only in reception and year 1 to go to 'forest school' which is a patch of grass cordoned off at the end of a field. Climbing trees is strictly forbidden where it was positively encouraged at the private school. I suppose I didn't expect such a huge chasm between an outstanding village school within a very wealthy catchment and a private prep.

I can't speak for @Youcannotbeseriousreally but in my DDs school, they extended the school day til 4.30pm a couple if times a week to fit in extra classes. On the other days they finished at 3.15pm.

That’s like saying should one child not get to have horse riding lessons or tennis lessons or private tuition because they have more money?

My 4 siblings and I, all brought up in poverty, obtained 5 degrees between us, 4 of us have had professional careers, all own our own houses, all have had children who also have degrees and professional careers, 3 of our children earn 6 figure incomes. None of us had private education. The ‘class’ one is born into does not need to determine the outcomes in one’s lives.

We chose to keep ours in the state system as we felt the local private school didn’t offer what we felt our particular child needed. I had a bit of a wobble around the top of primary school when friends kids at various private
primary schools did seem well ahead academically and being taught by specialist subject teachers. Now they are all into exam years the gap has narrowed dramatically and in fact ours and his state school peers have done at least as well as privately educated friends so far.

With hindsight I think mine would probably have enjoyed his upper primary years at a private school more (especially as sport really wasn’t a huge thing at his primary) but has totally flourished in a (good but very mixed catchmet) state high school

@overthehill5 not sure quite what you mean, but they put on one hour extra a week in Maths and one hour extra a week in English at the end of the school day. So the school day was one hour longer on the days they ran the extra lessons.

My son attends a private school, which on their marketing pages of their website, seems very appealing. It is so diabolical in reality that I cannot wait for him to leave after he sits his exams in 2024. I pay for private tutors and teach subject gaps. Staff turnover is incredible. Five teachers left last summer. Head teacher is condescending and interested in money only. He teaches an extra two subjects on top of his degree subject to save his wages bill and then struggles to manage/ mentor staff. I refuse to send my younger child there as a result as this is not good value. I wanted my son to go to a good school as the local state offer is very poor, and has poor outcomes. I went to a very bad state school and worked extra hard to catch up at college. The perception that private is better quality does not pan out in reality based on my own experience and other parents feel the same who are trapped in the school contract.

As I've already said, some of us don't measure educational value on results alone. I'm paying for a broad and varied education rather than a narrow and limiting curriculum. The results are almost immaterial because it is about the journey not the destination.

DD went to a state primary that was in special measures for a few of the years she was there. Then went to a state secondary that was outstanding. Then to Durham uni with three A*s and graduated with a 1st. Yeah , state schools are shit! 🙄

Oh and among her peers at Durhum, she and her fellow state school friend had the highest A level grades of all of her private school friends.

The private school reckon DS is 2 years behind their curriculum. We've been told in state that he's meeting expectations. How is this remotely acceptable?

But there will be lots of children in state schools who are doing much more than just "meeting expectations", and there will be plenty of kids at your ds's school who are probably working at similar levels to the private school.

Private schools tend to be selective. Even those that are not explicitly selective will be selective to a significant degree because of the kind of families that can afford private education and choose to pay for it. Many are also quite good at moving children on when they can't keep up.

So if the majority of kids in a particular private school are mostly working ahead of age-related expectations, that doesn't necessarily mean that the school is doing a better job of teaching them, or indeed that any individual child transferring to that school will suddenly start doing better. The chances are, most of the kids with similar demographic characteristics in state schools are also performing significantly above age-related expectations.

Of course, some kids will benefit from slightly smaller class sizes/pushier academic environments. I think this is particularly the case for those kids who hover just above average academically (ie fairly bright but not high fliers) and/or the ones who lack drive/self motivation. Private schools may well offer more support to help those kids succeed. A smaller number of private schools may also offer great support for kids with SEN (though this really depends on the school... sometimes, they will get much better support in the state sector.) For the kind of kids who are likely to excel anywhere, I think it's a waste of money, personally.

And of course, some people are happy to pay for fancy buildings/one-stop-shop extracurricular activities so that they don't have to facilitate these out of school etc. Fair enough if you think it's worth it. I didn't really care about buildings and preferred dd to do extracurricular stuff outside of school in any case, so those things weren't really selling points for me.

Ultimately, I think it depends on the schools in question, your individual child(ren) and what you're looking for from a school. I think you're working on seriously flawed logic though, if you're forming an opinion that private = good and state = bad on the basis of a one-day marketing exercise carried out by one single school. Hats off to them though, as they've obviously got the marketing just right for their target audience!

Money. State schools do a bloody good job with the pittance they have.

Other Dd has a bf that went to private school and some of his friends are such arrogant wankers. Anecdotal I know but never come across so many in a small sample. So glad my girls mixed with normal people.

I mean, what do you expect for the 💰 💰💰?

I know this isn't the point of the thread but I would have absolutely hated having to do PE everyday. Especially in the rain!