To think State education is really poor?

[Boswelian]

We sent our eldest to a taster day at a private school. He was agog. His school don't allow playing on the grass when it's wet. The private school change them into waterproofs and wellies for break. PE 3x a week. Sport every day. Dedicated specialist teaching in art, DT, languages, sciences etc. 16 in a class instead of 30. The difference in the quality of life between the two school has really blown my mind. The state school is "outstanding". The private school reckon DS is 2 years behind their curriculum. We've been told in state that he's meeting expectations. How is this remotely acceptable?

He is an abject failure as a politician though. That is the only point. His race has absolutely nothing to do with it.

They can't fill jobs because mid career changer PGCE students, like me, refused to apply for jobs in classrooms to engage with the behaviour issues after qualification. I liked teaching, and teenagers, but with no effective disciplinary sanctions, it wasn't a task I was willing to perform. I don't have a vocation and I wasn't bothered either way.

And now he's busy kicking the ladder rungs off for everyone else and even supporting the deportation of people to Rwanda. Hardly a success story in my book. I would be devastated if my child took the stance Suella and Rishi etc have taken and I know many others who feel the same

Couldn’t you have worked in the independent sector?

They can't fill jobs because mid career changer PGCE students, like me, refused to apply for jobs in classrooms to engage with the behaviour issues after qualification. I liked teaching, and teenagers, but with no effective disciplinary sanctions, it wasn't a task I was willing to perform. I don't have a vocation to transform sow's ears into silk purses and I wasn't bothered either way.

Sadly not @JimmyGrimble. My local independent school already had a teacher for my subject and because DH has a small business, relocation wasn't on the cards. I wanted to work, not a divorce.

Eh? Who brought up his race??

How is he doing that?

Labour are definitely doing that with their vat fee proposal. As has been documented on this thread and others.

I often muse that the the UK is a country that prefers gradual organic change rather than anything more radical. Safer, softer and more sustainable long term. It's not as broken as some suggest although there's always scope to do better, of course.

I can't see anything to be proud of in a private education sector that produces the next Rishi/Suella /Boris. I would be appalled if my children grew up with their values.

Social mobility has plummeted since the Tories were in power

(I am a floating voter, I am not a lefty).

That’s just an opinion. Not a fact. Other opinions are available.

No, social mobility plummeted when the universal 11+ was abolished. When I took it, in 1967, it was with my whole class from a very ordinary working class county primary school in rural west Cornwall. Three papers, English, Arithmetic and a reasoning paper. If you scored high, you went to Grammar School until you were 15. And then, most got an office job. If you didn't, you worked in the quarry or on a farm or for your family, because there were few alternatives. Military service perhaps. A handful, about 5%, went to university.

@opticalconclusion "His family is a story of people who have worked hard to achieve. People Labour can’t bear."

What, people like Wes Streeting, Angela Rayner, Keir Starmer.....

That was the case at DD's school. Several years ago the school, along with the support of the parents and our MP successfully fought this to win a fairer slice of the funding cake.

It’s cropping this country because it ensures social mobility is incredibly poor. There are many, many state educated people who could do the same jobs (and probably better) but they are held down, shut out. And so it goes on generation, after generation.

And yes yes to the previous poster’s point about regional spending educational inequalities. Yet another educational inequality the Tories have done nothing about.

It’s appalling and the majority are sick of it. The status quos needs to change.Those who buy privilege for their children are up in arms at the thought they may not be able to afford the luxury anymore which will mean their dc joining the ranks of everybody else. We see you. You don’t actually give a shit about anything else just your own children having access to unfair privilege. There is a reason parents pay ££££££ and often more than many people earn and it’s this.

That’s close to what they do in Scotland and education is pretty dire there

That’s a pretty damning indictment on the parents of the 93% who currently use state schools.

I do think that private school parents who are also supporters of grammar schools "We went private because we don't live in a grammar school area" "If only there were more grammar schools...." are really showing their true colours. No thought at all about what happens to the kids who don't go to the grammar school-the group the overwhelming majority of disadvantaged, underprivileged children fit into. For me, private education is wrong, but actually not as wrong as the grammar school system.

That would be a fair enough comment if private schools mostly produced these horrors of humanity but it’s actually only the ultra-elite schools which do. The vast majority of private schools in this country produce teachers, solicitors, nurses, doctors…

Medicine and law are two professions private education has an unfair impact on. If the facts below aren’t bad enough 61% of the highest doctors are privately educated. It needs to change and voters will expect labour to do something about it. https://www.bmj.com/content/352/bmj.i632

Actually social mobility and wealth inequality in this country is better than in many places
https://www.euronews.com/business/2024/04/01/wealth-inequality-where-in-europe-is-wealth-most-unfairly-distributed?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR321AeUhsKOrn_gi8v2JUWJxw1N_RrTNUiABpoG4TIPcU523HFbAiGvqbU_aem_AQ2jR-thRzwltCsyZG3WERAzj1UagE_UGu_LfeTQsjDN46921f6uejCtEANpXNTXhE3bRD3oPFA35-XnkuKR3gEQ

That doesn't make sense. Are you saying social mobility was better then when only 5% went to higher education and if you didn't get into grammar school you went down the mines?

Did you know that nowadays children from any type of school can sit exams at 16 based on their ability and 50% later go on to university, with no need to write anyone off based on performance at age 10?

It’s not just about wealth inequality but social mobility and access to the top jobs and uni.

Anybody arguing that things are ok will be benefitting from priviledge..

https://mediataylor.com/labours-vat-policy-for-private-schools-will-hit-every-homeowner-and-bankrupt-local-councils/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1IqQRjx2o77jmfiErWCAsMjxfOaP_eojrE6vzQ8uMZHqLkR5B5P5lSmOU_aem_AQ3YkD33q_Kjilj3RSfzl7tYM1gjFxPqsr40V_YOahkIhWwnF1cYvBhCWTEduMnkBljyUwy0u6bzqvMP90uYoijg

I think the grammar school system could be really good if the non grammar schools had more money, more facilities etc. It could be a chance to genuinely train young people in non academic subjects according to their interests and according to the skills shortages in this country. The problem is that non academic achievements are not valued in our education system. Meanwhile in the real world you can't get a tradesman for months and those kind of jobs are well paid and well respected.

Nobody’s arguing that a large proportion of medical practitioners etc aren’t coming from the private sector. But these are essential jobs and many of them are suffering profound shortages. The focus should be on improving the numbers entering those professions from the state sector, not on removing the ones we are getting from the private- seems a rather extreme example of cutting your nose off to spite your face! My point was more that it’s disingenuous to declare that private schools produce nothing but pompous, useless so and sos of the likes of Johnson when that is quite blatantly untrue and the vast majority produce mostly public sector workers and workers for quite ordinary professions. Most private schools are not Eton and Harrow.