To think asking a teacher how many passed GCSEs isn’t rude?

[Indoorvoicesbluey]

Dd15 is currently sitting mock GCSEs and is anxious about her future as everyone is atm.

she asked her English teacher how many of her students passed their GCSEs and she was told to stay behind class and was told off for asking it as the teacher found it rude and disrespectful. She said she didn’t mean it to be rude she was genuinely wondering.

“Miss, do most people usually pass?” - totally fine.

”Miss, how many of your class actually passed last year though? Didn’t half your class fail?” - definitely suggesting teacher can’t get them through the exam.

Totally normal and reasonable for your DD to be interested in previous years' performance. It's an inquisitive question and shows her desire for understanding. What a soft underbelly that teacher has to stymie her pupils.

I agree with PPs that it looks more like seeking reassurance that usually the majority of students pass their GCSE and it’s highly unlikely that someone who’s got, say, 6 at mocks won’t pass. Also the teacher could say that usually mocks results were lower so not to worry, you’ve got some time left, just practice etc etc and that would be the end of it.
Why on earth the teacher made such a big fuss????

Having the overall school results available is not the same has having individual teachers pass rates available. Asking for a specific teachers previous pass rate is not useful information for an individual child.

It is a shame that the teacher took the question as a rude challenge. I don't think that ramping up the confrontation level by you as a parent making accusations about competence is going to be a helpful way forward for your DD.

Unless I read it wrong, the teacher kept her back after class for a word. She didn't have her shot at dawn.

I imagine the "poor girl" will cope.

And if her mom actually goes in to the school to complain about this interaction, I think both daughter and mom will look a bit mad.

OP, people will often misinterpret things your daughter says throughout her life. They may sometimes take issue with them. She can explain herself to them. It's part of the human condition.

This is not cause for a huge drama. Don't make it one, for everyone's sake!

Apart from the message this would send your daughter, you would also be taking up time and headspace with your bizarre complaint that the teacher needs to use to plan her Year 11 lessons!

Context and tone matters here. You don't know these because you were not there.

In the middle of a lesson 'How many kids pass in your class then Miss?' Potentially rude and pointed.

After class 'I'm really worried about passing. Do all your students pass usually? How many failed last year?' Not rude probably.

If I had asked my history A level teacher that question (I didn't) she would have replied that in most years, she/her students got better than 50% A grades in 1974. IIRC, 5/8 of us got As. She was totally random, but connected the threads too, which might be better than linear study. She was lively and could dot back and forth while keeping her eye on the information that would be needed and the debating skill that would ascertain your ability level.

I can well imagine myself as a teenager asking this of the teacher in a snarky tone and then telling my parents innocently “I was just asking a question” ( I was a dick as a teenager)

YANBU

Former teacher here, any decent teacher will gladly answer this question. In fact, teachers outside of schools, such as music teachers etc., usually advertise their pass rates.

Sounds like the teacher overreacted and is rather defensive. You get some like that, these are the same teachers who don't like children who question things or think outside of the box. This is one of the many reasons why I home educate my children and actually encourage them to question things and ask why!

ETA Your daughter could ask this question formally as a Freedom of Information request!

Who said I was going to contact the teacher? I’m not that ridiculous

Yes, of course. But the answer is an easy one... answer with the school stat. If the child asks the teacher to specify... that's also a fair question. Teacher may or may not know that, and can answer accordingly.

It was a factual question. It deserved a factual answer, or an honest I don't know.

In response to a number of PP, do fuck off.

Asking the pass rate for an entire department (e.g. the 4-9 percentage for English) is fine. A reasonable question.

Asking specific teachers for their specific pass rates is unacceptable and a clear example of singling out a particular member of staff.

I think it was a normal enough chit chat question. I work in a school and I can't see why any teacher would be personally offended by this, especially it it was just curiosity. If however she said it in a rude tone.... well that's different.

It's a normal question asked by a parent looking round a school.

Asked to an individual teacher is unlikely to be anything but pointed. I cannot imagine it was asked in full innocence, your dd would know whereabouts she's heading grade wise by this point in year 11.

Yeah, this is why I don’t fall for my kids’ supposed innocence.

Of course it's rude to question a teacher on her pupils pass rate.

If teacher is teaching a low ability English class then the pass rate will be lower than a higher ability class, that isn't a reflection on the teacher.

I wouldn't answer that question. It's not necessarily an appropriate or useful question. Whether she was trying to establish how good the teacher's record was, or how hard the exam was, it wouldn't be possible to get a view about that without knowing the ability levels, prior attainment data etc of the students who sat those exams. Not to mention their effort levels.

Well I wasn’t a dick as a teenager and I would absolutely have asked the question quite genuinely. I’d also have been very embarrassed/upset to have caused an issue with the teacher by doing so.

I don't think it's rude at all.

I think if it's taken offensively from a child generally doing well. The teacher shouldn't be a teacher!

I work with teenagers and they ask all sorts, if one asked my 'stats' I'd be fine to tell them or to simply make light of it saying they have put me on the spot or jokingly asking if they are doubting my abilities.

This is why kids and teachers have such issues, if you work with teenagers, you can't be touchy, it just creates problems that aren't there!

The fact the teacher made such a big deal of it by keeping her behind and telling her off makes me think that she asked it in a rude way, trying to imply something about the teacher. Asking what percentage of the year group passed would be fine but asking what percentage of that particular teacher's class passed is none of her business. That said, the teacher over reacted and should have just brushed it off unless your daughter was very rude in tone.

Yes. If it’s an inner city school and/or serving a deprived community the pass rate will reflect the challenges faced the pupils and the teachers teaching them. Of course it’s not always the case but if there’s a lot of pupils still fairly new or very new to English that will obviously show for the vast majority of subjects given they are written in English!

Any decent school will give the classes with the most challenges - who could very well get results which aren’t glittering to others (though might be huge achievements for the children achieving them) - to the most skilled teachers.

Then either answer it, or don't. A simple 'i don't know off the top of my head' or a general 'X% of children passed their GCSE in this school last year, not sure how many of those were from my specific lesson' would be enough. Asking to stay behind after class is so OTT.

Can't answer if it was rude without hearing tone or context. Although it's worth factoring in that many people's tone when anxious, can sound rude to others, even if that's not the intention. It's something I can be guilty of myself.

What I would say, is that finding out Mrs Smith's last class's GCSE results is unlikely to assuage your DD's anxiety OP.

If it's 90% your DD will worry she isn't good enough.
If it's 10% she will worry her Teacher isn't good enough.

I'd dig a bit about what she is really worried about and work with her on practical steps to either manage her anxiety or improve her results in English.

You are contradicting yourself. She is worried about failing gcse English but taking it for A levels.

Definitely sounds like she was being rude.

It sounds like a perfectly reasonable question tbh. The teacher seems very over sensitive…..even if it’s an unusual question for a child to ask that shouldn’t be punished- in fact you would think that a student taking an active interest in the probability of passing exams would be encouraged.