AIBU to worry about vaping indoors?

[yetanotherdaytoday]

DP has recently given up smoking (outside) - great.

He's now vaping, which he does indoors.

Should I be worried about health risks with him vaping round the kids or is it OK?

DP thinks it's fine and totally different from tobacco. But I mean, they used to say cigarettes were good for the throat! He counters that by saying vapes have been properly tested. Is this true?

What do other vapers here do?

AIBU to worry about it being a risk to the kids?

It’s likely to be a lot safer than smoking yes. No question.

But that doesn’t mean it’s completely safe we don’t know about the long term effects. But they’re likely to be less because vapour contains much lower levels of toxins.

But they do contain toxins. Nicotine, although likely very dilute secondhand. Also there are various other chemicals including the scents and solvent chemicals. But is this really any worse for you than plug in air fresheners, diffusers, scented candles, incense? Because there’s some evidence that they are all also toxic to a degree as well.

Then there is the water vapour itself. Constantly inhaling water vapour into your lungs, essentially very damp air, we are now discovering increases the risk of certain lung diseases like pneumonia. Inhaling the oils in it also increases the risk of another type of rarer pneumonia.

So it’s all a matter of risk levels, risk reduction/ harm reduction. Costs/ benefits. Will be different for each person or situation.

The latest government review is useful.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nicotine-vaping-in-england-2022-evidence-update/nicotine-vaping-in-england-2022-evidence-update-main-findings

I'm surprised at all the people claiming that vaping is safe. Nobody actually knows enough about it yet.

I suspect that it will turn out to be as carcinogenic as smoking, but in different ways. Though I suspect the link between vaping and oral cancer, for example, will be similar to cigarettes.

But is this really any worse for you than plug in air fresheners, diffusers, scented candles, incense?

I'm not a fan of any of these, either.

Nice fresh air is what people need to be breathing in.

Another thing, I got a full on facefull of vale yesterday, after reading this thread. I have to say, it wasn’t entirely unpleasant. I mean given the choice, I’d rather not, but the fact is, I inadvertently breathed in a cloud that smelled and tasted exactly like fairy floss. If anyone thinks this shit isn’t marketed directly at teens, I have a bridge to sell you.

This is bonkers. There’s loads of evidence and studies done that say otherwise.

Have you ever even smelled a cigarette? How can you think water vapour plus nicotine and flavouring could be just has carcinogenic as that??

I suspect there will be some effect of vaping but to suggest it’s unstudied and potentially as bad as smoking is trolling

to suggest it’s unstudied and potentially as bad as smoking is trolling

You think what you like, but I object to being told that I'm "trolling".

Back in the day, people genuinely believed not only that cigarettes weren't harmful, but that they were positively good for you.

As things stand, nobody has any idea how vaping will be affecting people, because the products haven't been around for long enough for there to be any meaningful research into the long-term side effects.

I personally find the smell revolting - it smells like artificial sweetener to me. And it is 100% aimed at young teenagers - it's the smoking equivalent to 90s "alcopops".

A quick Google gave this as my first search result - from the Cancer Research website. It suggests that the current belief is that vaping is less harmful than smoking, but the jury is still out as not enough research has been done yet. I don't think they're trolling, so perhaps I'm not either.

Does vaping have side effects? Lots of people want to know about the health effects of e-cigarettes. They’re still a relatively new product, so it’s too soon to know for sure. Many studies show that vaping is far less harmful than smoking. This is because e-cigarettes don’t contain cancer-causing tobacco, and most of the toxic chemicals found in cigarettes are not in e-cigarettes.
Some potentially harmful chemicals have been found in e-cigarettes. But levels are usually low and generally far lower than in tobacco cigarettes.
There is no good evidence that vaping causes cancer.
But e-cigarettes are not risk-free. They can cause side effects such as throat and mouth irritation, headache, cough and feeling sick. These side effects tend to reduce over time with continued use. We don’t know yet what effects they might have in the long term.

As a smoker, I shamefully tried to quit via the medium of vaping several times before it became some form of popular fashion. It was literally swapping one addiction for another, with potentially worse health risks. You'll find letting him away with doing it indoors, he will vape more than he smoked. I would have smoked far more if I didn't limit myself to outdoors.

I have now quit again almost a year ago. This time I used nicotine patches instead. Now I'm off those and no nasty vape. Would he try this route instead?

This is where it gets a bit complex. I should have said that the evidence is now suggesting that nicotine is a carcinogen- we’re not quite sure how serious yet (though definitely lower than a lot of other compounds in cigarettes) and whether it is ‘accelerated’ by other compounds.

Cancer research is wonderful so please don’t infer that I am casting doubt on their credibility, but it’s ultimately a case of risk analysis. We know that smoking is one of the most sure fire ways to develop cancer- it carries HUGE risk, so doctors and cancer charities are rightly doing all they can to get people to stop. Their audience isn’t necessarily particularly literate with scientific research and interpreting risk, but they ARE majority smokers. Smokers really don’t need to worry that nicotine may be a relatively low level carcinogen, because they’re dealing with much much bigger risks from elsewhere. The risk of cancer from nicotine is minuscule in comparison, and doctors etc don’t want smokers to potentially think “ah well may as well keep smoking because vaping might cause cancer too”- especially when the research is still unclear.

A parent thinking about their young child, who has never smoked and is typically not exposed to many carcinogens, is likely to be more interested in possible risks of nicotine. The risk analysis is very different for different groups.

There are some really interesting research summaries but they tend to be quite heavy reading for a Friday night- have just found this though that points to a few and is a bit less of a slog! https://whyquit.com/pr/062422-nicotine-does-not-cause-cancer.html

Why on earth he doing it in front of the children.
He needs to sneak off and vape alone.

Won't be long before the kids think it's fine to vape as Daddy does it.

To clarify, I’m not at all saying that cancer research is wrong- just that they’re (understandably) focusing on the big picture rather than the nuances of the lower risks that are coming out of research from the last few years. Until we’re sure of the effects it makes a lot of sense for them to focus on the serious issues and not muddy the waters.

(When communicating to the public, I should have said!)

The perfect reply.

It's absolutely revolting to have to smell it and him to be doing it indoors is going to make everything stink.

Very poor example to show his children how weak he is with no willpower.

Vaping hasn’t been around long enough for there to be long term studies. No one can say either way.

https://www.rsph.org.uk/about-us/news/nicotine--no-more-harmful-to-health-than-caffeine-.html

My DH does not and would not vape inside our living areas of the house. He does vape in his office with the widows open. He does not and would not vape near or in sight of our DS.

I don't think you're going to find a refutable source saying why the bad health affects are. However that doesn't mean it is ok it just means vaping hasn't been a thing long enough for the effects to be known unlike cigarette smoking which has gone on for decades.

The chemicals in vapes especially the flavoured ones are likely pretty bad and I wouldn't want to be in a house with an indoor vaper though.

That link very clearly articulates the biggest issue which is that smoking is astronomically dangerous and pretty much anything is better- so yes, nicotine is in comparison relatively safe and all sensible doctors, charities etc will promote its use to encourage people to stop smoking.

That is not the same as saying that nicotine is harmless. There is strong undisputed evidence for it increasing the risk of cardiovascular diseases (which, coincidentally, is also true of high caffeine doses), and there is growing evidence for a link to cancer.

Do smokers need to worry about that? Absolutely not. Do children and others who have never smoked? Yes.

I would very happily tell a smoker that nicotine is safe if it convinced them to stop smoking. That article pretty clearly emphasises that their goal is to stop people from smoking- not to teach the general public all the very complex nuances surrounding risk of different compounds. They are deliberately and openly simplifying the narrative.

I don't think we know enough about it yet. OH used to smoke outside but vapes indoors. He tries to make sure it doesn't come my way. But, if children are in our house, or we're visiting someone else's home, he then goes outside with it!
I think it's just one more addiction after dropping actual cigarettes.
One person I know even said they took up vaping to lose weight 🤪🤪 WTAF?!

My husband use to vape indoors but he kept setting off the smoke alarms so now he vapes outside. Also it annoyed me because if I was watching tv and he vaped, all I could see was flipping vape smoke floating around in my tv view!! He vapes less now because he now leaves his vape in the kitchen and has to walk from wherever he is in the house to have a vape, it's still not ideal but it's better than the smell of cigarettes imo (we have no children btw).

*reputable not refutable haha

@sandybeach12 How can vapour, similar I suppose to steam from cooking/kettle cause smoke alarms to activate? They are SMOKE alarms. Just curious!

Yes, ours go off with the shower steam if we leave the bathroom door open, or even when I'm drying my hair

Some activate differently. Mine is outside the bathroom and a hot bath sets it off