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Changing the law because the current one does not fit your narrative

162 replies

jemenfous37 · 16/11/2023 11:14

How is this allowed to happen? There are quite a few laws that many of us would like to break, either for our own convenience or because they don't suit our world-view, but we cannot.
So why can the Government, after 4 rejected court appeals, dare to ride rough-shod over our laws?

OP posts:
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ntmdino · 17/11/2023 14:19

Can't help feeling like most people are missing the point here.

This is nothing to do with reducing the number of immigrants - it's already established that, under the Rwanda deal, there will be almost exactly the same number of people coming into the country.

This is the beginning of the 2024 election campaign.

Think about it - the Tories set it up specifically so that it would fail a Supreme Court test, because the deal with Rwanda was codified in an unenforceable Memorandum of Understanding (against all precedent) instead of a treaty, and there's documented evidence that everybody involved knew it would fail. The Supreme Court ruling is based entirely on that failure, and didn't examine any further failures in detail on the grounds that it took precedent (it's not the court's job to give them a list of things to fix). So...they fix that by negotiating a treaty change - that'll be a couple of months, and then it'll get right up to the wire and a new court challenge will be raised, which will be another two or three months. That takes us up to March/April. It will almost certainly fail again on the grounds of human rights, and then Sunak will announce further changes and we go round again - so we're up to October/November.

The point is to make it look to the drooling masses like the Tories are battling against the system to do the absolute best for the country, and it'll dominate the headlines. In terms of election campaigning, that's a win.

And, if by some miracle, they actually win at any point in the game of whack-a-mole they've set up, then they can proclaim that they've done something for the country's best interests that nobody else has managed to (despite the fact that it will make no difference to the overall numbers, other than reducing the immigration backlog they artificially created with their incompetence).

Whichever way it goes, they can spin it to their favour.

HannibalHeyes · 17/11/2023 16:34

Well, Cruella's plan seems to be to completely remove Habeus Corpus, so they can basically drag literally anyone off the street and send them to Rwanda without any challenge. It's completely mental.

And Eastern seems to be another Clavinova - endless whataboutery, no engagement, just repeating the same stuff over and over again.

And to the pp who was asking about the effect of all the asylum seekers in temporary accommodation on the British public - surely processing them quickly so they don't have to stay in temporary accommodation would free up enormous amounts? Admittedly, that wouldn't leave you so many things to rail against, but you can either have something to shout about how unfair it is, or you can sort it out...

Changing the law because the current one does not fit your narrative
SerendipityJane · 17/11/2023 17:35

Fun fact: It was habeus corpus that eventually confirmed slavery was illegal in England.

IvorTheEngineDriver · 18/11/2023 01:16

Parliament makes the laws. It created the Supreme Court and, if it feels like it, it could abolish it too.

HannibalHeyes · 18/11/2023 01:29

Yeah, replace it with patsy's and donors.

How great for democracy...

Wrongsideofpennines · 18/11/2023 02:03

Wasn't the bit of law it was found to break the bit about protection from torture, inhumane or degrading treatment. So that's what they want to change. Are the majority of the public really happy to have that bit removed from law? Surely it would have huge implications in all sorts of cases, not just immigration.

SerendipityJane · 18/11/2023 08:56

Wrongsideofpennines · 18/11/2023 02:03

Wasn't the bit of law it was found to break the bit about protection from torture, inhumane or degrading treatment. So that's what they want to change. Are the majority of the public really happy to have that bit removed from law? Surely it would have huge implications in all sorts of cases, not just immigration.

Oh, don't worry. It'll only be the bad people it affects. After all it's not like they are human is it ?

(You have to feel sorry for the Tory headbangers. Just as they see the goal of reducing some humans to untermensch coming into view, the situation in the Middle East blows up and the whole world remembers when that last happened.)

WakingNightmare · 18/11/2023 09:48

The rise of the actual far right that makes the Conservatives look quite nice is gathering speed across all of Europe, even the utopia that MN love of the Scandi countries such as Sweden for example are currently changing laws due to issues with immigration.

I have a few friends in America and the issue over there has Republican border states bussing immigrants for free that make it across the border to Democratic states to basically move the problem.

Voting reform would have meant with proportional representation in the 2015 election UKIP could have had as many as 80 members of parliament.

I see a future of much more hardline policies in the style of Poland and Australia towards immigration worldwide.

EasternStandard · 18/11/2023 09:52

WakingNightmare · 18/11/2023 09:48

The rise of the actual far right that makes the Conservatives look quite nice is gathering speed across all of Europe, even the utopia that MN love of the Scandi countries such as Sweden for example are currently changing laws due to issues with immigration.

I have a few friends in America and the issue over there has Republican border states bussing immigrants for free that make it across the border to Democratic states to basically move the problem.

Voting reform would have meant with proportional representation in the 2015 election UKIP could have had as many as 80 members of parliament.

I see a future of much more hardline policies in the style of Poland and Australia towards immigration worldwide.

Yes it’s happening already. Pp might like to ignore it but pressures will only increase, meaning further shift is inevitable.

MidnightOnceMore · 18/11/2023 11:46

WakingNightmare · 18/11/2023 09:48

The rise of the actual far right that makes the Conservatives look quite nice is gathering speed across all of Europe, even the utopia that MN love of the Scandi countries such as Sweden for example are currently changing laws due to issues with immigration.

I have a few friends in America and the issue over there has Republican border states bussing immigrants for free that make it across the border to Democratic states to basically move the problem.

Voting reform would have meant with proportional representation in the 2015 election UKIP could have had as many as 80 members of parliament.

I see a future of much more hardline policies in the style of Poland and Australia towards immigration worldwide.

Did you miss the recent election in Poland? The right lost.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/16/art-law-history-and-tv-tusks-plan-to-remake-polish-life-after-rightwing-rule

Art, law, history and TV: Tusk’s plan to remake Polish life after rightwing rule

Nationalist PiS party is soon likely to be out of office but freeing country’s institutions from its cultural grip will take time

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/16/art-law-history-and-tv-tusks-plan-to-remake-polish-life-after-rightwing-rule

HannibalHeyes · 18/11/2023 13:19

UKIP would never have got as many as 80 MPs, although I'm happy for them (or the "Reform Party") to have representation in parliament if it gets us away from this awful 2 party system.

It would make it much easier for people to see exactly what a bunch of Nazi loons they really are.

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