WWYD: DP won't get on board with any of my ideas

[time2change1]

Starting a new thread.... Welcome to look at previous if helpful.

Summary:
We are family of 4; 2 DCs 10 & 4; Eldest DC high anxiety, OCD like behaviour and phobia (been assessed, not ASD) on waiting list for CAMHS; Youngest has recurring illness with lots of days off school - on NHS waiting list since April, now going private but not something we can easily afford

I have MH difficulties which weren't helped by pandemic + v. young child, not furloughed, and DP working out of the house throughout lockdowns, led to my 1st burnout; Then dealing with eldest DC being off school due to anxiety, + intense job & bullying in workplace, led to 2nd burnout; now better with meds but still waiting (2.5+ yrs since first referred) for NHS therapy

DP works FT, 40hpw and is out the house for about 12 hrs each day; he finds kids / home life stressful so does sports after work to manage

I'm self employed, but take on almost all the responsibility for kids which means I miss a lot of opportunities for work due to them being off school a lot

The problem:

• DPs full-time wage only covers roughly half of our outgoings, he loves his workplace and doesnt want to leave, but they are under paying him by at least £7k p.a.
• I'm self employed, so when I don't work because of kids, I don't earn, and 1 lost DAY of work for me is what DP earns in a WEEK (not all of what I earn is money in our pocket due to business costs)
• DP works in a trade so difficult to go part-time
• It would be detrimental for DPs mental health (and therefore for the children) for him to give up work and become a SAHD

I've suggested the following but DP not keen:

• Moving to where my parents live, as they have time and would love to help out with kids so both me and DP could work - I come from a culture where it is normal for grandparents to be very involved - BUT, they don't live in UK and DP can't stand them and doesn't want to move

• DP reduces hours so that he can cover morning drop offs and take parental leave if kids are off school so we aren't losing so much of my earning potential

• DP leaves his workplace and finds a better paid and/or more flexible workplace

• DP gets some professional help to better manage family life or at least identify his needs (similar to eldest DC) to get him support

Or anything else we've not considered?

Am I being difficult and unreasonable?

I would absolutely forget moving to the other side of the world to be near your parents who he dislikes. That kind of move is hard enough on families when everyone is up for it. It's never going to happen and he's not unreasonable to not go with it. You had your dc here, the eldest is 10, you do get help from the in laws plus a month of help from your folks every year. There's no justification for uprooting everyone and clearly there's no option to just 'move closer' as a pp said. So forget that one. Even if you left him, you wouldn't be allowed to take your DC to live away that far because you wanted to.

Sorry but better to deal with realities and more plausible solutions. I'd start with him cutting down on the hours he's out, missing some of the sports most likely, as your MH is important too. It's harder for him to reduce work hours in his trade but as you earn well when you do work, paying for more help might be possible.

But what is your actual job???

I had a friend in a somewhat similar situation (she needed to travel for work too) and she had a nanny (actually a live in one, although that brings its own problems) and other friends with high earning, but inflexible jobs also employed a nanny (live out).

It did look to me, on the outside, as though they had hired someone to do their DH's share of the childraising...but if that's what you've got to do...(their DHs earned well too).

Key questions;
Can you get, and keep, a suitable nanny?
Can medical appointments and mental health support actually be done by a nanny or are they the kind of thing where you'd need to be there anyway?
What would your earnings be in excess of what a nanny would cost (remember the tax) and your business costs?

You should probably base your workings on your DP doing the same amount he is now. I mean, it's been a decade. That ship has sailed.

I think with nannies you could pay them for agreed hours and spread those across 4 or 5 days a week. I think most nannies would have a figure in mind they expected to earn. If you said part time you run the risk of them having a second nannying job.

DP looks for a better paid job/asks for a raise
You sort out health problems as a priority
You get some extra hours in in the evening.

You might not want to hear this OP but mh problems are a luxury you cannot afford. You need to go into survival mode where everything is geared around obtaining your goals- if that means working hard you do it. If that means feeling the pain and doing it anyway you do it. If that means you lack a little sleep or go without or feel alone, you do it. If that means you get up five am to prep food, clean, wash and prepare, you do it. This is a marathon and if you want to succeed you need to make that success- healthy kids, a good income eyc the goal you pursue obsessively and do not quit on, no matter what obstacles stand in your way. Your DP needs to get on board with this too.

What are the alternatives? Slip into debt? Kids get excluded?

I am sorry that I haven't given you sympathy but sometimes adversity comes to make us stronger, harder and better. When you have risen to the challenge and succeeded you will be unstoppable. When you have a healthy bank balance and healthy, happy kids it will be worth it. When you have learnt the discipline to work harder and do better you will feel more confident.

Seems your dp isn't very dear or a partner.. He needs to shape up or ship out. Hobbies in hardly any wages.. While your mh is in decline... What a twat.

Tbh, I'd move to your parents without him, he's not a partner or a father.

I wouldn’t move to another country to live near in laws I didn’t get along with. For that reason alone, YABU.

He doesn’t get on with your parents in any shape or form.
You have had very serious mental health breakdowns
Two young children, one of whom with SEN

Would you move in his shoes OP?

She can't move their kids to the other side of the world without his permission.

🙄

She hasn't said he wouldn't give permission, just that he won't agree to move himself. Given his non-involvement with the kids it's not a forgone conclusion. In any case OP shouldn't rule out this option if only to use as a bargaining chip.

If you have a spare bedroom it might be worth looking into having an au pair.

We have 2 ASD kids and had at one stage another off school long term with anxiety.

Identify the small things that could make a difference firstly make sure you are claiming DLA for eligible children.
Get groceries delivered. Get a cleaner (possibly a house keeper instead who would iron and prep meals) and a gardener if you need one. Tumble dry clothes as much as possible to reduce ironing.
Set up routines where possible.
Get Dh to cover 2 hours on Saturday morning so you can get hair done/ gym / walk etc to aid mental
health.

You don't say what age kids are but it does get easier as they get older.

Rather than you looking for all solutions, say
DH - this needs to change. You need to do half the childcare, and chores - I need time too, I find it stressful too. These are the days I want to be out of the house.
what do you suggest with regards to money? We only cover half of our outgoings if I have to stay home with the kids all the time

and then see what he comes up with

Sorry, but why is that relevant?

I've already revealed quite a lot about me and my family, I would like to at least try and protect our privacy to some degree...

That's really helpful, thank you. I really need to explore the nanny option further.

I've been so focused on sorting secondary school for eldest, and sickness for youngest, that I've really not looked properly into the nanny route - mostly because I think if I can find the right school for eldest, their potential to do well is good, just need to feel safe at school - not an easy find in state school these days that have so much pressure on them - so was looking at private options, which I'm not sure we could do private + nanny, but again, needs looking into.

I'm also hopeful that once littlest has been seen and operated, should see improvement with sickness so that it is in line with most EYFS/KS1 kids - which can then be managed with annual leave from DP (he is now on board and sees why it is important for us to share the load) and help from in laws.

Sometimes a kick up the arse is needed too 🙂

Sorry if this is harsh, but I don't have time to engage in verbal ping pong with people who don't fully read what i've said, so if I ignore you - yep, it's on purpose, keep posting if you feel you need to, but I'm going to go ahead and keep ignoring you.

I'm more than happy to be made accountable. I posted on here, because I genuinely want to know when I am being unreasonable. I'm an adult, I can take criticism if it is constructive and helps us move forward as a family.

I have said this once, I will repeat it once more here, and then I will not engage in any conversation about it:

I will only move overseas, if we all move overseas. If DP won't go, then we don't go.

He is their father, he does have rights and even if I was the sort of person who could disregard that, moving my DCs away from their father, doesn't just hurt him, it hurts them too.

As harsh as it sounds, I made my bed (in this country) and now I'm going to have to lie in it if DP is unwilling to move.

It's so frustrating that you are trying to fix it all in isolation. A load of women are brainstorming how a woman should fix it all herself when you're married, you should be a team. But I also know how these things arise.

I am not sure I can help with the bigger stuff but on a nuts and bolts level he could be doing more. There is nothing like pitching in to give you the other person's perspective, and I think he needs to get more sense of that. Him being out of the house 12 hours a day isn't a structural limitation. What CAN you hand over, preferably lock, stock and barrel? Food shopping and cooking? (He might currently stay out and go straight to his sport but that is not inevitable, every night.) Cleaning up the kitchen after dinner? Birthday gifts and parties? Saturday football/ swimming runs? My ND husband asked me to help him identify stand alone tasks that he could most helpfully take on, and then he JFDI. He was also home for bedtime every night because, as he put it, otherwise when would he get to see the children on weekdays? I imagine our evening structurally wasn't that different to yours but with him always being home for bedtime and cleaning the kitchen every night, no matter what chaos had been piling up since breakfast, he made me feel supported.

It might be worth saying to your husband that spending a bit of time with the kids every night actually makes it easier and more rewarding to be around them. It's much easier to parent children you have a good relationship with, and the only way he gets that is by putting the hours in. You can't do that for him, and neither can a nanny. It doesn't have to be all the boring stuff, a bit of reading at bedtime makes a difference.

I understand where you are coming from, I was thinking the same thing in the previous thread and was just going down a very angry, and resentful rabbit hole.

DP does contribute and does care:

• contributing half our outgoings consistently is not insignificant, particularly when my income isn't consistent due to all the reasons outlined before
• DP has stood by me through my MH problems - it would have been much easier for him to say, nope, this is too much like hard work, bye 👋, but he hasn't
• he takes youngest out regularly once a week for 2 hours, eldest used to go, but anxiety now stops her from going
• he also does quite a bit of household stuff because he is a bit of a machine when it comes to routine tasks so gets lots done in half the time most people would take to do them, so that is a huge positive - our house would look like a war zone otherwise!
• he is now realising that me doing all the kid stuff means not enough income at the end of the month, because this month I've not been able to contribute financially, so he has agreed and is making changes that benefit all of us, not just him

I think the problem is that I get hugely frustrated that it has to reach crisis point for changes to be made... so I probably make DP sound a lot worse than he is due to my frustration with the situation... I'm human, I'm not perfect and, while I try my best, I can be just as unreasonable as the next person!

Thank you so much @Whatnowfgs, really appreciate you sharing your thoughts and experience. Having a child with SEN is hard, but 2, I take my hat off to you!!

No spare room, but we are looking to move within the next year (not overseas!!) depending on where eldest ends up going to school, so that could help, although, I'm not sure that landing a young adult in this mess would be a good idea, but if things settle, definitely something to think about.

DLA/PIP and child benefit all being claimed, so we are covered there.

Groceries need to look at getting a routine going. This would be the ideal thing for DP to take over because of how regimented he is, so I think spending some time thinking about meal plans, ingredients etc, would definitely help with some of the mental load.

We don't iron, we just buy clothes that don't need it. Yes, we don't always look the smartest, but I've stopped caring what people think of how we look 😬Kids are washed, wear clean clothes, in my eyes, job done!

Kids are 10 and 4, so I know it's been the hard slog of early years, but hopefully things will improve with youngest so we can deal with the lovely teen years for eldest!!!

Thank you for all your suggestions, will discuss with DP as I think he would get on board with all of them.

Thank you @Nevermind31, I think we are finally there with that conversation. It takes a while to get to a point where DP engages meaningfully with things that require change... Again I know that sounds bad, but it is how he is, he has been like it the entire time we have been together, so if it hasn't changed up until now, it wont, so I just need to accept that this is how it is.

The very least he could do is cover days when the DC are off sick.

It sounds like this is what would make the most difference to you, both MH wise and earnings wise. (Reducing financial stress also helps with MH of course). And it will be more manageable for him than a big change like finding a better paid career.

I would also ask him to cut down his after work sports/hobbies. Twice a week and once at the weekend. And you get the same.

Yes it may feel like all the sacrifices are on him, but that’s because so far they’ve all been on you and none on him, and that is unsustainable. Both financially and emotionally.

Gosh, this is so incredibly helpful, thank you @Djimm. This is exactly what DP is like, give him a task and a deadline and you could bet your last penny that it will get done!

Me - I'm not routined at all, which I imagine, hugely frustrates him.

Love your idea of standalone tasks - that would definitely suit DP. I need to think about what would be most helpful.

Regarding kids - when kids ask him, he does rough and tumble, which they love, reads books at bedtime, and does take youngest out swimming every weekend, which they both enjoy. He also recently said that he had a lovely day with youngest, when I had to take eldest out for school stuff. So I think what needs to happen is to make it on set days, that do not change if DCs are sick or whiny / asking for me etc, it's a routine, and that's that. I think he would go for that.

Thanks again for sharing your experience, hugely helpful!

Oh good @time2change1 I was a bit worried I was waffling.

Other stuff that has helped - I get up with the kids Sat mornings. Since he's been at work all week that helps him reset and re-energise for the weekend. With kids' sick days, if they fall on my day off on I have them, but if it's not we have quite a strict 50/50 thing. Routine could help you here. We both make a point of trying to lean in to help the other out. It ends up the same in practical terms as if we both begrudgingly did our bare 50%, but it feels completely different.

It's good that he is doing some of it already. Your pinch points are going to be different to mine. I would just add that rough play is the parenting equivalent of taking the bins out. Not a daily thing, doesn't take any significant time, tends to be a "blue job" that gets overvalued while the bigger, daily tasks fall more often to the woman. Just take care that he doesn't just end up with the less essential once a week stuff and leave you with the daily grind. What can he become "default parent" for?

If he likes routine he might be up for food ordering and prep.

My kids are at uni now but I used to run a food routine along these lines:

Mon something and chips and frozen veg
Tue pasta and sauce
Weds packet meal eg pizza everyone chooses the one they like
Thurs jacket and beans or stew depending
Fri curry and rice