To ask what the country was like under a Labour government?

[user6776]

I'm too young to remember a proper Labour government. I was 12 when the Tories got voted in back in 2010 so that's all I've ever really known.

How much better was it than it is now? Why did Labour lose the election back then anyway?

Interested to hear people's opinions.

The waiting list is for 'elective care' according to this - NHS England (2022);

The waiting list for elective care. The pandemic has placed considerable strain on planned service delivery, which was already under pressure before the pandemic, and understandably deterred people from coming forward for care. Six million people are now on the waiting list, up from 4.4 million before the pandemic. Patients on the waiting list are at different points on their ‘pathway’ from referral (usually by their GP team) to treatment. About four in five are waiting for treatment that does not require an admission to hospital, such as diagnostic tests and outpatient appointments. However, some will have complex or urgent needs, such as cancer treatment, cardiac surgery or neurosurgery.

https://www.england.nhs.uk/coronavirus/delivering-plan-for-tackling-the-covid-19-backlog-of-elective-care/#impact

What’s that got to do with what I said?

Who’s spent all the money?

Widespread confusion over number of ‘people’ on NHS waiting lists (Nov 2023);

Around 6.5 million people are waiting for 7.8 million courses of treatment in England, according to the latest figures (Nov 2023), because some are waiting for more than one thing.

Several politicians, newspapers and social media users have mixed up the number of people and the number of cases currently on NHS England’s elective care waiting list.

... we wrote about several Labour politicians - [including] party leader Sir Keir Starmer, shadow chancellor Rachel Reeves and MP Dame Angela Eagle claiming that there are “7.8 million people” on NHS waiting lists... [others] have made the same mistake...

https://fullfact.org/health/nhs-pathways-patients-waiting-list-labour/

I can and will admit to not knowing how I shall cast my vote at the next GE. I don't like most of what is being done under this adminstration, but equally, I am not enthused with the alternative on offer. Count me as floating. If I knew that Starmer would be unchallenged as PM, possibly. If we were to have the same Labour candidate again locally, that would help too. But my next vote is likely to be awarded on local subtleties instead of a a raging enthusiasm for any of the big policies.

BIossomtoes
Who’s spent all the money?

Your chart doesn't include public sector banks or PFI which are 'off the books'

https://www.ons.gov.uk/economy/governmentpublicsectorandtaxes/publicsectorfinance/timeseries/ruto/pusf/previous/v54

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/long_reads/pfi-banks-barclays-hsbc-rbs-tony-blair-gordon-brown-carillion-capita-financial-crash-a8202661.html

What’s your point Clav?

Any comment on this?

I was a young mum and found it much better for my young family.

Children got a Child trust fund, there was money for health in pregnancy and there were Children's centres everywhere. All gone under the Tories which is a crying shame.

Ha ha a failed NC there Clav??? you re not about to defect are you?

It wasn't perfect at all, it is easier to wear rose tinted specs. But it felt kinder, more prosperous. Less selfish and most of the politicians weren't absolutely awful.

So What is about to begin?

If Elphicke is so toxic, why was she even allowed to be in the Tory party???

Her views on schools and housing are very much on the left of the Tory party and much more in line with Labour ideas.

Plenty of people across the commons and the public do not want the 10s of 1000s of x channel migrants coming to the UK that the Tories are allowing into the country, record numbers so far this year, with no sign at all that Rwanda will act as any sort of deterrent.

Why is Sunak allowed to change his mind on a whole range of topics, yet according to you, Starmer cannot? e.g:

What is more shameless than spending years trashing Labours Nom Dom tax changes but then at the last budget before the GE, adopt the very same taxes?

They brought about Scottish devolution which has been the biggest waste of money for Scotland due to it being an utter gravy train

When you’re middle income you’re totally screwed whether the national government is labour or Tory

In fairness whilst TB and Labour didn't call the brexit referendum it could be argued that their actions drove the result.

In 2004, unlike other countries, Blair allowed new EU members open access to the UK eg Poland, Estonia, Latvia leading to exploitation of cheap labour and benefit shopping. Immigration was over 20 times the estimate. This absolutely was a key reason that people wanted out of the EU however it wasn't the EU that made us - Blair allowed and encouraged it.

In fairness annual net migration in 2010 (under Labour) was 252,000, a then record high.

In 2023 (under the Tories) it was 672,000, lower than the record high of 745,000 in 2022.

And we've left the EU.

Work that one out.

But yeah it's all Labours fault 🙄

Nah, Brexit was driven by the (incorrect) idea that the EU was ruling us, most people accepted that the migrants working in our Hospitals and Care homes were very much needed.
I doubt anyone now who cannot get a tradesman, is thinking no EU workers coming to the UK is a great idea.

Low wage growth? really? until 2008, we got decent pay rises, after the GFC, interest rates and inflation plunged, so of course pay rises did too.... then the Tories gave us Austerity, one of the biggest drivers to vote to leave....
if EU workers were exploited and paid below the NMW, thats down to the UK failing to enforce the law.

The 'press and "journalists" like Boris Johnson, stir the pot, Just as they are now with calls to leave the ECHR.

It’s probably quite similar to post Merkel in Germany and rise in parties there to the right, actually in a few EU countries

It’s all part of a similar reaction, if differing ways to show it

According to the Tories today, Natalie Elphicke couldn't be further to the right, one saying there is no room to the right of her.

Yet the Tories were perfectly happy to have her in their party.

What does that say about the current Tory Party?

The beginning of flip-flopping on a number of issues to get votes. Non-dom tax changes affects a minimal amount of people. What defines a woman/protection of women’s rights is something quite different. There are many MN’ers who can’t/won’t vote for Labour because of their stance on what defines a woman. KS is making all the right noises ahead of the GE on this subject and my warning is that he is very likely to change his position if the wind changes. Changing his mind on this issue would have enormous consequences. Ask LibDem supporters how they felt on the issue of Tuition fees not only not being scrapped, but the cost unceasing to boot. And they stood very firmly on that ticket.

The issue of immigration is not a one-party issue and a voters position may well be affected by where they live. The Tories inherited a position in immigration issues left by the previous administration (and not least because of the displacement of people from Wars Labour started) and the fact our EU membership obliged us to accept those migrants even though the number of member states in the EU had increased - particularly from countries whose economies were not as stable or prosperous. Unarguably those EU migrants were driven to the UK because of the generous benefit system Labour provided. And that’s all before including ‘students’ who were attending dodgy made-up institutions that the Labour Party turned a blind eye to. You cannot say that the Tory party has not tried their best to stop the attraction of the benefit system (unfortunately affecting some UK citizens) or stop unfettered economic migration, but there are many factors which means the tap cannot simply be switched off.

As unpalatable a policy as Rwanda is, maybe ask the Irish people if it’s working, because right now they’re not thrilled with the same people who would have stopped in the UK rocking up to their country either.

On the issue of Michelle Ephicke, I don’t think her very public welcome has gone down well with all of the Labour Party either.

Who’s Michelle Elphicke?

Natalie Elphicke. Apologies, I was texting a Michelle at the same time 😂

Whats your view on the Tories change on NI cuts? just 2 years ago, NI RISES were being touted to pay for social care.

& the cuts are being funded by cuts to social services.

Both parties do things to get votes, thats how you get elected to put your ideas into practice.

Elphicke was perfectly acceptable in the Tory party, indeed was an oft quoted MP on immigration, are you saying Labour have higher standards?

Answering the OP - it was a warmer country. We didn't have the constant low level racism about refugees, there was no shaming of benefits but a seeming want to help people retrain to work (sounds similar but really felt like help not another spike laden hoop to jump through to get a pittance whilst being called a scrounger). The country was blooming - flowers in towns boarders (not just for Surrey), you could get a Dr appt within a week and always got through to a receptionist at least when you called, the towns were thriving, so many shops and new things opening all the time - not a procession of nail bars and American Sweet shops fronting for money laundering. Education seemed to be going well and IIRC Oxford and Cambridge were higher on the global list of best Uni's than they are now? It felt like a forward looking, collaborative country. It felt cohesive and competent. We used the best research to inform policies, and Labour had a good way of checking their own departments were all working together to achieve goals that aligned with each other. The Olympics was a real moment of pride for the UK and I still remember how high that felt but I cannot imagine other countries ever looking at us in that way again post Brexit. It is not really possible to compare it to whatever the hell we have had with 14 years of the blatant lying and profiteering, cruel policies and swing to the far right. The idea of seeing Debenhams closing down, empty shops on the high street, schools literally crumbling and people using a service such as 111 because they can't get through to even the receptionist at the GP would have been unimaginable.

Ireland are not happy about increased numbers no

Odd for that MP to go to Labour, still they accepted her I suppose

According to the Times this morning, at least one member of the Shadow Front Cabinet commented that while there were Tories he would be pleased to welcome to Labour's benches, Natalie Elphicke wouldn't be among the first names on his list!