What's wrong with being selfish?

[Draculina]

I'm a long time lurker (2+ years). I decided to finally register as a user to specifically bring up this subject. Please excuse my English, it's not my first language, and I'm not from an English-speaking country.

I have noticed that members of this forum often seem afraid of being, or coming off, as selfish to other other people. Am I the only one who doesn't understand why? Some examples I have seen of people being fearful of selfishness:

"I have been asked to commit to unpaid childcare for a prolonged amount of time. Am I being selfish for saying no?"

"I have been asked to lend someone I don't know very well £500 - am I being selfish for saying no?".

"I don't have kids and I have Christmas off work. My colleagues that have children pester me to give up my time off so they can spend Christmas with their family. Am I being selfish for saying no?".

"My boyfriend is lazy, dirty, doesn't pay any bills, and is actually costing me and my children money. I feel too guilty to ask him to leave, it seems like a selfish thing to do".

Why is it such a bad thing to think of your own best interests before anybody else's? Why should I think about someone else's children before I think of myself? Why should I feel bad for saying no to being used?

I'm not talking about situations where you, of course, compromise and show other people common courtesy and decency (negotiating (fairly!) time off at work with colleagues, opening doors for others, let someone get in front of you in a queue if they have less items in their cart than you, being a bit extra patient with children, lending a good friend that you trust some money if they need it, etc.). I'm talking about situations when other people want to use you, take advantage of you, or expect you to be okay with being treated as less / 2nd class, and using "selfishness" as some kind of insult or manipulative tactics to get you to agree to put yourself last and them first - because THEY are selfish and think of themselves before they think of YOU.

Why do so many people tolerate selfishness in other people, but not in themselves? I truly don't understand it...

Two words: female socialisation.

Your English is a lot better than a lot of native speakers OP so don't apologise!

Lots of people are chronic people pleasers as they believe this makes them decent people or because they don't want to advocate for themselves enough to bother with uncomfortable conversations. Reality is its fine to say no, it's fine to put yourself first but to be a decent friend, family member etc there's a balance I suppose. I'll say yes to some things I can't be bothered to do because the person asking helps me out and/or I can see that it'll truly benefit them and I care about them. I don't feel bad for saying no to other things though, just as if someone said no to me I wouldn't judge them.

Yes, also combined in many cases on here with a very British fear of looking ‘above yourself’. OP, there is absolutely nothing wrong with prioritising yourself in any of those scenarios. In fact, about 80% of the problems on Mn would be solved by posters putting themselves first.

female children that are now adult where raised to be subservient and put others first, especially first born females who were lumbered with the babysitting of siblings. They’re now adult women but the habit is hard to kick! It’s blended into us.

Im raising my daughters selfish, it will save them a lifetime of hassle, especially from men!!

Because a lot of shitty behaviors in the world are as a direct result of human beings being selfish and only looking out for number one

The issue here is not putting oneself first, but the incorrect usage of selfish, which means lacking consideration for other people; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure.

When people post those scenarios and ask if they are getting selfish, the answer is no, because they aren't.

Ensuring you are considered while others are also considered isn't being selfish.

There is another thread running just now about how direct communication is seen as rude in British culture compared to many other cultures. Simply saying ‘no’ is frowned on: much better to look for some external justification that allows you to say No without actually having to say it.

i agree with you OP: so many posters on here seem to have been taught to put themselves at the bottom of the heap.

also agree that it’s female socialisation: I can’t imagine a male equivalent of MN with lots of blokes agonising about being judged as ‘selfish’ 🙄

So to answer your question, being selfish is unpleasant, but those scenarios are not talking about selfish behaviour.

After 2.5 years of Covid restrictions in Scotland I never want to hear the word "selfish" again.

Thank you so much!

I agree with you that it's normal to agree to do things that are helpful and kind to other people, but don't necessarily benefit ourselves. It's nice to be nice, but it's not nice to be a push-over, right? I think you make a valid point in some people being people-pleasers...I guess I just wonder where this quality comes from! Is it something parents teach their kids to be? Is it a learned behaviour?

That's a really good point, actually. I thought about it, too, if people using the term "selfish" incorrectly is something to consider in all of this...

I think so mixed with others' sense of self importance and reactions to people saying no.

I don't think the examples you describe are selfish, they're just good boundaries.

Selfish is things like the husband on a recent thread here who goes golfing all day every Saturday leaving his wife looking after four kids, two of whom aren't even hers.

Being selfish like that is bad because it negatively impacts his supposed loved ones, creates resentment and probably sends the message to his children that he isn't very interested in them.

I agree with you Op its people not getting their own way so they call others selfish.
All these people who can't manage their own lives as adults needing money, lifts and CC from others all the time.
What I love is the justification that " if I could drive, had 10K, you needed every penny I had, had 10 kids , I would do it, give it , look after them !
Except they never do!
Hahaha nuts !

That's the point!
They aren't selfish, just people say it as a way to get their own way.

I wondered if there are cultural factors to consider in this matter, as well. As someone who's not British, and has never lived in the UK, I have noticed (through this forum) that British people seem to worry or concern themselves with many things that just aren't issues, at all, in my own country and culture. I love the British's politeness, but I definitely believe you can be polite and set boundaries at the same time.

It’s societal and women are expected to be nice, fortunately I am adept at saying no and don’t think of nice as my top requirement. I find people think if you aren’t nice the it must mean you are nasty, this is not the case.

One other thing I see on this forum is people who have issues with relationships saying I’m nice as their top quality and that should attract potential lovers and friends. Being nice can be an actual detriment in many ways because it makes people dishonest and you never truly know the person because they are so worried about offending or upsetting people.

Exactly! Thank you.

Also people with low self esteem think putting their needs after those of others will mean that those other people like them when in reality putting yourself first means other value you too.

This works at every level and as someone with respectful loving children, respectful loving friends and a workplace that treats me better than most of their other staff I try damn hard to teach this to other women. I especially dislike all those advantage takers and bullies who change personality depending on who they speak for being so happy to use those who are kinder or have less robust defences against them.

What's with the exclamation mark @Highlandsprocker? Calm down.

Haha, yes, it's easy to HYPOTHETICALLY agree to doing all of these incredibly selfless things - but if you aren't actually PRACTICALLY doing any of them, then your words are empty and worthless! Anyone can imagine themselves in unlikely prospective scenarios, and delude themselves into believing they'd do all of these super generous acts of kindness to people that, frankly, don't deserve them.

Nailed it in the first post!

Totally agree with this.
Over nice people are manipulative.
Basic manners etc fine but doing things for others who don't really ask or need it is a way of manipulating the reactions of others .
It's lack of boundaries
They also tend to be very PA and get VERY nasty when others do assert boundaries.
I'm so good to you , you are so selfish
AKA
" I over involve myself and now you won't do the same for me I will call you nasty and selfish"
Very black and white thinking

Oh yes, I can see how low self-esteem is absolutely a factor, too. I think that might be the main issue, actually: that people under-value themselves, so have difficulties assessing situations, and setting appropriate boundaries. That's so sad!

Spot on. I think being nice is a good quality, but it can also just as easily be a bad quality if your niceness is a timid mask you hide behind to allow toxic behaviour. I'm glad to hear you don't have an issue with saying no, and don't feel "selfish" for having personal boundaries!