To feel down about a judgemental mother?

[Katielottierose947]

Hiya I’m 25 years old and in a long term happy relationship

I was out for a coffee yesterday with a couple of my girlfriends and another lady had tagged along (she was friends with my friends) everything was fine and we were chatting and then children got brought up. Both my friends that were there have children and also the new lady I’d just met let’s call her Lucy ( not her real name)
Lucy is in her early 30’s with 2 children.

Lucy asked ‘When are you going to have kids then?’ I replied that me and my boyfriend have decided we actually don’t want children and that even though we’ve thought a lot about it it’s still the decision we’ve come to. Lucy proceeded to say ‘ I wouldn’t feel like a proper woman if I hadn’t of had children to be honest, I mean it’s a bit selfish! ’ she laughed and then she made her eyes go wide like she was in shock . I laughed nervously back. And saw my two friends wince.

My friends saved me from the awkward silence that arose. I didn’t want any confrontation. When I went home that afternoon I felt a bit down thinking should I want children, am I a normal woman? I’ve seen loose women discuss this in their show before so I know I’m not alone I think it was Vicky Pattinson?

Why are woman called selfish for NOT wanting children? Am I being unreasonable to be upset by this comment ? Has anyone been in a similar situation before ?

thanks sweeties 😊

I would avoid Lucy in the future. Your friends wincing shows you what they thought of her comments. I don't understand why she thinks it's selfish, that makes no sense at all! I wouldn't be surprised if Lucy is a generally judgemental and unempathetic person. You are not BU to feel down about her comments as they were very rude but just know that this isn't a common way to think – you are great, whole and enough whether you want kids or not

She asked you a rude and probing question, despite the fact that you had only just met. That was the red flag that she was a dickhead.

IMO your only mistake was to [over]share you thoughts with her about whether you want to have children or not - it was none of her business. Grey rock with people like this all the way...

What a judgemental cow!

YANBU OP. Your life, your choice. Absolutely none of her business.

Did this really happen? I just can’t imagine someone being so nosey and brazen to a total stranger.

Of course she’s totally wrong and other people’s fertility choices is none of her business.

I can’t speak for the OP, but based on my own experience of being childfree, it wasn’t that infrequent, usually in the kind of situation the OP describes, friends of friends, people you haven’t met before, in social situations. I mean, there are a lot of dimwits out there.

She's plain wrong. I have children. Choosing to have them in some respects was the ultimate selfish decision. We had them because we selfishly wanted them. What other reason would be good enough?!

Children are life changing and often bring about rapid and major changes in one's self perception, relationships, life direction, priorities etc (equally, sometimes they don't much - I'd imagine it's hugely personal).

For this reason I think parents often project ideas that because having children has changed who they are, people without children are in some way stunted or less developed.

But it's codswallop because we all have different life stories, different trajectories and we all change and mature in different ways whether we have children or not. Unfortunately, I have encountered as many selfish, immature people who have children as without.

As others have said, sadly you may have to get used to these kinds of comments for the foreseeable and build your own defences against them. Of course you are not wrong to find these horrible, insulting and misogynistic comments very hurtful. It will just be better for you to move into a mindset of seeing this as a failure of intelligence, perspective and empathy on behalf of the other person, rather than a reflection upon your life choices.

Yanbu, don't give this woman any head space. Having children is a completely personal choice and whatever that choice is always be confident in your decision.

As someone a bit older than you, I know that is a question you should never ask.
Or indeed answer really. It's no one else's business.
Lucy sounds like a bit of a cow to me.

Have a look at tiffany.jmarie on insta, OP, she’s brilliant at highlighting the bollocks that child free people (women, obviously) regularly get hurled at them, and also great with the responses. I do often wonder why people like ‘Lucy’ are so personally bothered by others choices, it’s very strange.

There's nothing wrong with choosing to not have kids.

There's also nothing wrong with pushing back at fuckwits who say things like this. You don't need to be rude particularly, but pointing out that saying to someone's face you think they are "selfish" and "not a proper woman" just because they've made different decisions is extremely rude.

I have also been known to point out that they have no idea of my personal circumstances, and maybe they could consider that the person they are quizzing on their fertility choices might have some very upsetting reasons behind not having kids yet.

I don't have children, past the point where I could now. You have, sadly, in my experience, a long road ahead of you of hearing this. Along with 'you will change your mind' and 'you will regret it'. I didn't and I don't.
If you ask people why they had children, not one of them will say 'I made a personal sacrifice for the sake of the future of mankind'. It is not more altruistic to have a child when it is something that you want.
Women who have children when they don't want them have often been coerced by peer pressure or a partner that does want them. This sort of pressure includes being made to feel you aren't a whole woman if you don't. Never mind what that says about women who want children but can't have them.
It is never having a child for the sake of the child, or for some lofty cause. The fact that childrearing involves sacrifice does not make conception an unselfish act. If you are pressured into it, however appalling that is, you still aren't having the child for the child's sake, or for a cause outside of your immediate situation, which is what absolute selflessness would mean.

She is what is commonly known as a Fucking Idiot. She’s not just entirely wrong, she’s also rude and stupid.

Completely discount her nonsense as quickly you would any other offensive numbskull.

She's rude. I personally would've said that was an unfair statement for her to make. I have a child, I wanted to have children but I completely understand that some people don't want to have children. It's not selfish. If anything it's the opposite. It would be selfish to force yourself to have children that you don't want just to fulfill something you'd consider an obligation

Lucy is a twit who obviously has so little else going on in her life that she is defined by her reproductive system. Why anyone would even make comments like that to a 25 year old is beyond me - I don't know anyone in my circle who wanted children at 25, we were too busy building our careers and enjoying life!

Do your friends know how Lucy made you feel? I hope they will not let her tag along next time..

She sounds like someone I'd have no time for. Infact I'm guessing the fact she has children is her whole identity and we will read about her here as an awful mil later on in life.

There's absolutely nothing wrong in your decision, lots of people are deciding not to have children now. We really debated ttc and we really wanted a child, I think it's more selfish to have children now to be totally truthful.

I'd be spending no more time or thought on her.

I'm in awe that you didn't hand her arse to her for being so rude to be honest. I'd have been incredibly forthcoming about how rude she is. You aren't "no normal", having children does not mean you are a "proper woman" and you shouldn't ever give someone else the power to make you feel so rubbish about yourself (especially some random woman). Seems like you have a nice couple of friends who helped you out of the situation though and I'd probably ask before meeting them again if Lucy will be there too - and then decline the meet up if she is!

You sound as bad as her with that change your mind comment!

Obviously she's a twit, but I've heard this opinion before - that it's selfish to not want children - and I genuinely don't understand the thinking. Is it supposed to be selfish not to want to make the sacrifices involved in being a parent? Or to not want to "do your part" by perpetuating society? Honestly don't get it.

She's vile but will be thriving on your silence. Use 'did you mean to be so rude?' next time.

I used to work with a woman who thought this and wasn't afraid to say so (she was one of those "tells it like it is" people who thinks being rude is a personality trait). Having thought about it for some time I concluded she must not actually like her children - she was basically saying she had sacrificed her own enjoyment and fulfilment in life to have them. She was a miserable cow to be fair but if she hated it that much why try to pressure everyone else into having children?

Selfish is when you put yourself first and it has a negative effect on someone else, like grabbing the last seat on the train or always leaving the washing up for someone else to do; it's a negative thing because it causes difficulty for someone else. Who are you causing difficulty for by not having children? This isn't the Third Reich, we aren't obliged to have babies for the Motherland.

I reckon deep down she’s jealous!

ignore her, she’s trying to do that thing of making herself feel better by saying stupid things out loud. Silly woman!

She is not worth bothering about.
I'm a mom of 3 my choice , but equally i see just as much satisfaction in remaining child free , it's not selfish -what a stupid comment ! there are more than enough children being produced .
Live your life the way you choose it's no one else's business, no way are you less of a woman but she's crass and thoughtless.

In the future respond to questions like this with “did you mean to be so rude?”

Yes and yes.

Also don't let other people decisions which either or both you and your partner have properly considered and made to suit yourselves be affected by pushy, intrusive people.

It's none of this rude woman's business whether or not you have children - or anything else for that matter. You also don't need to explain anything to her or anyone else - a statement in response eg "my partner and I have discussed this and decided we don't want children" should be enough. If she presses (as she may) tell her this decision suits you both and you feel no need to discuss it or get approval from anyone else. (Shutting down this sort of attitude works for other things as well). If she gets upset that's her doing - turn to your friends and talk about something else with them. 🌹

Decisions about your fertility and reproductive SHOULD always be selfish. So yes, it's selfish of you to have kids when other people might want you to or society needs people I'm thirty years time to rub the schools and hospitals but none of that matters as much as what YOU want to do with your body and your life. Moreover, it's selfish of me to have kids when there's so many already alive and we're killing the planet etc. but I still believe that it's a right be selfish on this issue and have them if I want them

The only time, as a possible disclaimer, was if I knew they'd be brought into a life of abuse etc. then obv the woman's rights shouldn't trump everything