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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think this university marking criteria is discriminatory?

63 replies

65k66 · 09/11/2023 15:23

'Discriminatory' might be too strong a word, but I think it's not very inclusive.

We have a presentation coming up, and we are specifically graded on the way we present the material. This includes non-verbal communication, making eye contact with the audience, and speaking at a slow and clear rate with good tone of voice. It's for an NHS healthcare degree, so obviously clear and efficient communication is really important. However, the professional body has made it clear that they want to encourage a diverse workforce, including having practitioners with neurodiversity such as autism and ADHD.

I don't think the marking scheme is reflective of that and goes against it, as I think, for example, that autistic students will receive a lower mark because of difficulty making eye contact with the markers, etc.

AIBU?

OP posts:
Differencesclear · 09/11/2023 15:25

I think that’s brilliant actually

Labradoodlie · 09/11/2023 15:26

I quite want healthcare staff who make eye contact.

RedCoffeeCup · 09/11/2023 15:28

The trouble is OP, if you try to make every assessment very inclusive, you end up with a degree that doesn't mean much because there are people who struggle with any aspect of assessment (whether it's written / spoken etc).

Overthebow · 09/11/2023 15:29

Labradoodlie · 09/11/2023 15:26

I quite want healthcare staff who make eye contact.

I agree with this. Clear communication and eye contact is a must for healthcare workers. I think I mark scheme should reflect this.

Pinkpinkplonk · 09/11/2023 15:30

You can’t have hcp who can’t communicate

Differencesclear · 09/11/2023 15:30

autistic students will receive a lower mark because of difficulty making eye contact with the markers, etc.

but if they are going to be engaging with patients - then they need to either learn to keep and maintain eye contact or pursue another position.

65k66 · 09/11/2023 15:30

I think there's a difference between making eye contact in a meeting or 1-1 appointment, and making eye contact during a presentation in front of a cohort of 50+ students.

OP posts:
Differencesclear · 09/11/2023 15:31

I can imagine that someone vulnerable, upset, anxious or in need of physical and / or mental support - would not be reassured if their HCP couldn’t make eye contact with them

BarneyAteMyHomework · 09/11/2023 15:32

65k66 · 09/11/2023 15:30

I think there's a difference between making eye contact in a meeting or 1-1 appointment, and making eye contact during a presentation in front of a cohort of 50+ students.

Eye contact in a presentation is much easier than in a 1-1 situation, though.

Perhaps ask for presentation coaching if you don’t know the tricks about how to do it.

Differencesclear · 09/11/2023 15:32

65k66 · 09/11/2023 15:30

I think there's a difference between making eye contact in a meeting or 1-1 appointment, and making eye contact during a presentation in front of a cohort of 50+ students.

So is this more about being worried you have poor presentation skills rather than discriminated against for being autistic.

ElaineMBenes · 09/11/2023 15:33

65k66 · 09/11/2023 15:30

I think there's a difference between making eye contact in a meeting or 1-1 appointment, and making eye contact during a presentation in front of a cohort of 50+ students.

If the audience is that large then it won't mean make eye contact with everyone.
It will be referring to looking at the audience rather than the screen/notes. That is an important aspect of presenting.

Badatthis · 09/11/2023 15:33

If you have an inclusive learning plan system (which all universities I've worked have do) then if you have ADHD or a learning difference then that will be taken account in this kind of assessment.

I've had students with severe stammers do presentations. We just miss out the 'clear voice/style' element of the marking grid.

Differencesclear · 09/11/2023 15:34

Because many many NT would struggle doing a presentation to 50 plus and maintaining eye contact hence fact that they have Included an assessed task on it

KStockHERO · 09/11/2023 15:36

Students with ADHD or autism which affects their ability to meet the learning outcomes or assessment criteria will have reasonable adjustments in place to ensure that they are not discriminated against.

Geneticsbunny · 09/11/2023 15:37

Also. Not all autistic people struggle with eye contact.

They are examining for an important part of the job which is still important regardless of whether the person being examined is autistic or not.

Catza · 09/11/2023 15:40

I am an autistic person working in healthcare. I don't think it is discriminatory. The person can request reasonable adjustments for this sort of thing. Also, one cannot maintain eye contact with the audience of 50 and it is perfectly acceptable to have a soft focus gaze somewhere in-between the rows of people. In fact, many public speakers will do just that as being stared at intently isn't something most audiences enjoy.
If someone is severely autistic, then working in patient-facing roles may not be particularly sustainable but I assume most people who got through the uni interview are able to manage general interactions.
Finally, each individual assessment only carries a small percentage of overall mark. So where you lose on presentations, you may gain in your written work.

Kangaroobrain · 09/11/2023 15:41

Students who have disclosed hidden disabilities such as ND are usually entitled to compensatory measures in some situations, as long as the university is made aware of it.

GoodnightGentlemen · 09/11/2023 15:44

Geneticsbunny · 09/11/2023 15:37

Also. Not all autistic people struggle with eye contact.

They are examining for an important part of the job which is still important regardless of whether the person being examined is autistic or not.

Not all patients want or care about eye contact.

But yeah, there will be reasonable adjustments built into the marking system.

ColleenDonaghy · 09/11/2023 15:47

Students with autism will have adjustments that mean those factors aren't assessed or they are assessed in a different way.

Presentation skills are important in lots of fields, especially health care. It is absolutely right that these skills are assessed.

University is about so much more than just learning the academic material. These soft skills such as presentation skills, professional writing, deadline juggling are at least as important and sometimes more important.

GoodnightGentlemen · 09/11/2023 15:51

BarneyAteMyHomework · 09/11/2023 15:32

Eye contact in a presentation is much easier than in a 1-1 situation, though.

Perhaps ask for presentation coaching if you don’t know the tricks about how to do it.

This is true- with an audience of 50, so long as you are looking in the direction of the audience and not at the screen/notes/the ground, then you don’t actually need to make eye contact with anyone because no one will know. they will all presume you are making eye contact with someone else in the audience.

Maddy70 · 09/11/2023 15:53

It probably is but effective communication is health care roles is vital.

Perhaps someone with the inability to do that isn't best suited to the role

Iwannaliveinstarshollow · 09/11/2023 15:58

This is nothing new though. I completed my health care related degree 30 years ago, and the presentation of your dissertation in the final year was marked exactly the same.

Many people (in fact I'd probably say most people) aren't particularly comfortable addressing 50+ people, NT or not, but it's part of the degree, so they have to suck it up.

WhatPostDoc · 09/11/2023 16:00

An inclusive degree will have a range of assessment types. ND individuals may find this aspect of the module hard, but that presentation may be only 20% of the module grade. The other assessment styles within the module may suit them and pull their grade up. Some people really struggle with written exams but may excel in presentations.

Also declared disabilities will have reasonable adjustments if asked for. These can include for example presenting to a smaller audience or certain things taken into account. I never marked someone with a stutter down on communication because of the stutter.

DogInATent · 09/11/2023 16:00

No. Not where communication is a core function of the role the qualification is preparing you for. Educational providers can make reasonable adjustments, but it would be fundamentally dishonest (to the student and society) to make adjustments that would indicate those that benefit from them are more suitable for the vocation than they are.

NB, there are tricks/techniques when presenting to appear to engage with the audience more than you are. It would be a reasonable adjustment on behalf of a student with these issues to research and practice them. Life doesn't make adjustments, we need to meet it half way.

AlwaysFreezing · 09/11/2023 16:01

No university wants to be accused of being non-inclusive. This criteria will have been written, checked and checked again.

They obviously feel that this is something that is worth assessing. I imagine even you fail that part of the assessment but pass the rest of it, you will pass overall. But that criteria allows constructive feedback to be given, and highlight to the student that this is an area that does need some improvement. That's fair enough, surely.

And, finally, if the student has disclosed thery will most likely be entitled to reasonable adjustments.

Is this a general observation or is this about you? If its about, it's rubbish that you feel like this and I wonder if you've spoken to the staff, because they may be able to reassure you.