To think this university marking criteria is discriminatory?

[65k66]

'Discriminatory' might be too strong a word, but I think it's not very inclusive.

We have a presentation coming up, and we are specifically graded on the way we present the material. This includes non-verbal communication, making eye contact with the audience, and speaking at a slow and clear rate with good tone of voice. It's for an NHS healthcare degree, so obviously clear and efficient communication is really important. However, the professional body has made it clear that they want to encourage a diverse workforce, including having practitioners with neurodiversity such as autism and ADHD.

I don't think the marking scheme is reflective of that and goes against it, as I think, for example, that autistic students will receive a lower mark because of difficulty making eye contact with the markers, etc.

AIBU?

I'm a healthcare professional with ADHD who was never going to get an A on a piece of a academic writing yet aced the presentation/OSCEs/written exams. If your situation is discrimination isn't the opposite true? They have to use a variety of examination techniques to accurately examine those who aren't great at essays.

I had 2 modules which were a presentation, neither of them would have been failed on presentation skills such as you described. It would have certainly affected your grade but the majority of the grade came from ensuring that the content met the learning outcomes, being asked questions after your presentation to test understanding and the quality of your references.

The vast majority of my job is communication and a massive proportion of the route cause of complaints is communication failures. Plus as a graduate professional we should really be able to present and if you go any higher in NHS it would be an essential job criteria.

Great post @MythagoW . I hope you manage to stick it out, I suspect your students are lucky to have you.

I’m going to say YABU, simply because DD is an AHP and works with an amazing guy who is autistic and was non verbal until he was six. He is an advocate for Autism in the hospital and the patients and staff love him. He does regular presentations to staff and outside people on how he overcame obstacles to get his degree and job.

he is a very competent band 6 Allied Health Professional with some quirks and lots of character. he deserves everything he has achieved and is equal to his NT colleagues and supported by his employers.

I got marked down on a presentation because it was being filmed and I reverted to 'stick to your mark when presenting'. Could have done with a roll of Gaffer tape to mark out a couple of spots to move to for different parts, rather than present incredibly effectively to camera, tbh.

DD2, however, who is AuHD, does brilliantly in hers, because she moves around and defocuses her eyes so everybody thinks she's looking at them when she's actually looking though to the chest of whoever is behind.

It's part if the course. There will be others who aren't as good at long questions shirt questions, multiple choice questions, practicals. So they will get lower marks for those.

YABU. It's a valuable skill, tough for many people ND and NT, to learn but well worth it.

DS has autism and ADHD. In 6th form he had to give a presentation in front of a packed hall of students, staff and parents. I felt sick with concern beforehand as he was extremely socially ill at ease in those days. he was also tiny for his age and quite plump at the time. He stood up, gave a brilliant, confident speech and won the prize, despite stiff competition (he genuinely was the best!) I totally reassessed what i thought he was capable of that night. At home he was open about how tough he found it, but clearly when needed he could pull all the skills out of the bag.

These skills are needed in the workplace and for autistic and ADHD people to acquire them is a massive achievement they/we are capable of. (I too have ADHD but not autism) and I have to speak publicly in my job on a regular basis. I now actually love that aspect of the role. It's a learnable skill. Both DS and me (we discussed it) found that our ability to high-focus on the topic, rather than ourselves, massively helped us. Public speaking doesn't come naturally to many people, including NT students who may find it harder than ND people, to focus on the subject not the act of standing up there in public.

Obviously no one should be unnecessarily marked down, but if you can't communicate clearly and you need to be able to for the job you're training for, surely that is a problem.

To use an analogy, it's not discrimination (or at least, not unjustified discrimination) that a blind person can't get a HGV license.

If however the course could lead to other roles where communication isn't an issue in the same way, then that would be a problem.

I understand where you are coming from. I am very good and effective at communicating one to one bit I get nervous presenting to a group.

Here's a tip I use with my autistic students...look at the space between people's heads, at eye level. They will all assume that you are speaking to the person next to them. It still looks like the speaker is communicating and opening up to the audience but they don't need to actually make direct eye contact.

I have a couple of autistic students who always look at the floor and absolutely cannot make eye contact. In honesty, I can get them through the course but I doubt, due to the nature of the job they aspire to do, they will ever find employment in the field. Eye contact is an absolutely vital part of the job role and it's a highly competitive field.

The University only have to make reasonable adjustments. It's not discrimination to require aspiring health professionals to demonstrate good communication skills. It's not reasonable to expect universities to overlook this.

For what it's worth I have combined type ADHD and PDA, both neurodiversities. I had to learn to meet the demands of my profession and had to massively step outside of what was comfortable for me, and I also learned quickly that there were some professions that I simply couldn't do because of my ND. I had to find a bearable level of discomfort and work through it, whilst also giving up on certain career pathways.

I've never failed a student based on lack of eye contact or communication difficulties during a presentation, nor have I heard of a colleague doing so. The student may not come out with a first, but the likelihood of one poor presentation impacting on the success of the whole degree is non existent.

Definitely this. Inclusivity is only good if the person being included is capable of doing the job/task required of them.

I wouldn't imagine they would lose a huge amount of their overall degree marks if they lost some for lack of eye contact, and it's their overall degree which will decide whether they are or aren't qualified.

YABU.

If clear and effective communication with patients or clients is required for a career that this degree is required, then that must be taught and assessed.

Someone who has difficulty making eye contact can be taught how to do so for specific tasks.occasions, just as someone with a small voice can be taught to project it. These are skills which can be learnt, and assessed.

YANBU. Hopefully accommodations will be made as necessary x

I much prefer sitting in training where the trainer doesn't pick on a few people to look at! I was in a training session, on Monday, and was very unnerved because I was one of the audience that was talked at.
I am neurodiverse but can talk to someone, competently, on a 1-1 basis but I do struggle with largish audiences.