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To think the standard of living for retired people had to change

1000 replies

downdowndowndowndown · 09/11/2023 14:50

I'm a millennial. I will retire in my seventies. Many in my age group will be still paying their mortgage off well into their sixties. Many will never be able to buy. This is not a moan about that.

My mums generation were able to buy cheaper houses in the eighties. Some have also inherited well (houses which their parents owned and didn't have to sell to pay for care, which had risen in price to above a million). They had better pension plans. Some were able to go to university for free and their degrees actually meant something in the workplace: They often paid off their mortgages in their forties. I see a lot of my parents relatives have retired early and have very enviable lives.

Two uncles have retired in their early sixties. They are both in good help. They spend their days on many holidays, eating out multiple times per week, going to garden centres, renovating their beautiful houses, helping children financially and with childcare. They will have presumably worked out their finances and could afford to continue to live like this for the rest of their lives! Possibly thirty more years!

I think they are possibly going to be unique in their quality of life. We will never have that and I don't see my children's generation having things any earlier.

In essence the generation before me were mostly fortunate, unless personal situations changed their financial situation or they lost their homes during the nineties interest rises. Retirements and pensions were never designed to support people for three decades and that things had to change hence raising the retirement age and making people pay more towards their care.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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Zebedee55 · 10/11/2023 09:19

I think, at the moment, we are ALL having to pay more for things. Younger people pay the same amount for fuel, food, clothes as I have to.

The country is in a total mess, but setting up one group against another is what this government like to do.🙄

BIossomtoes · 10/11/2023 09:19

What I see is older people shutting down the younger generation with insults about how they're lazy and have everything given to them on a plate, even though that's blatantly not true.

Nobody’s said that - or if they have I missed the posts.

Roundandroundandroundsound · 10/11/2023 09:19

@Sholkedabemus how are they being robbed? Because they are not entitled to retire 7 years earlier than everyone else, any more?

coffeeaddict77 · 10/11/2023 09:20

They will be able to get a pension though or other benefits.

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 10/11/2023 09:20

@LakeTiticaca , from all I’ve ever read or heard, it’s often the relatives who want Mum or Dad (however decrepit) kept going for as long as humanly possible, and get very upset or angry if anyone (like medics) suggests that it might be kinder to give palliative care and let Nature take its course.

Plus of course, as I’ve said before on here, anyone can very emphatically add their own wishes re ‘striving to keep alive’ (or not) to a Health and Welfare Power of Attorney, so that in the event that you can no longer speak for yourself, others will be well aware of what you would want.

Feraldogmum · 10/11/2023 09:27

Think about all your gripes on Saturday when the rest of us will be holding a 2 minute silence to remember what other generations have done and suffered for us.

Ginmonkeyagain · 10/11/2023 09:29

Things were tough for older generations but a lot of older millennials had tough childhoods too.

I mean I am early 40s and looking at a retirement age of 68 if not older. I grew up poor with no central heating, free school meals, hand me down clothes, a rented TV that frequently went back cos we couldn't pay. I have worked and paid NI since I was 16 as I worked all the way through A Levels and University.

Belles8335 · 10/11/2023 09:29

At no point did she sound ageist?! Envious maybe, but not in a bad way! Just sounded to me like she was saying how sad it was that her and maybe had children will not be able to live like that. More of a reflection of days gone by.

Flowers4me · 10/11/2023 09:30

Zebedee55 · 10/11/2023 09:19

I think, at the moment, we are ALL having to pay more for things. Younger people pay the same amount for fuel, food, clothes as I have to.

The country is in a total mess, but setting up one group against another is what this government like to do.🙄

Yep and its the usual divide and conquer crap that some people are falling for. The hate and division is unpleasant to say the least. We should all be focused on challenging the government and holding them to account. The media too has a role to play in sensationalising this intergenerational hatred. Time for it to stop and for us to work together.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 10/11/2023 09:31

Just a few posts above yours is one from an older person saying how a lot of women didn't work or were very part time and it wasn't explained to them about "married women's stamp"

If that's me I said how it WAS explained to them.

coffeeaddict77 · 10/11/2023 09:35

Ginmonkeyagain · 10/11/2023 09:29

Things were tough for older generations but a lot of older millennials had tough childhoods too.

I mean I am early 40s and looking at a retirement age of 68 if not older. I grew up poor with no central heating, free school meals, hand me down clothes, a rented TV that frequently went back cos we couldn't pay. I have worked and paid NI since I was 16 as I worked all the way through A Levels and University.

Edited

And a lot of older people have a tough old age too. Not all pensioners are well off by any means.

Ginmonkeyagain · 10/11/2023 09:35

@Feraldogmum of course we abould always remember and show gratitude to the generations that sacrificed so much in the two world wars. However that is not the generation the OP is talking about - unless there were a lot of toddler soldiers and ARP wardens doing the rounds.

You have to be 80 at least to have even been alive during WW2

Sholkedabemus · 10/11/2023 09:35

Roundandroundandroundsound · 10/11/2023 09:19

@Sholkedabemus how are they being robbed? Because they are not entitled to retire 7 years earlier than everyone else, any more?

Equality of retirement age is not the issue. Since birth in the 1950s, women faced discrimination and it continues with the pension issue. I can tell you my own experiences which are mirrored by thousands of other women of my age group. But is there any point? Have you already decided that older women are better off than you? And you are just going to have a pity party!

WeightWhat · 10/11/2023 09:37

Zebedee55 · 10/11/2023 08:07

NI pays towards contributory benefits - such as sickness benefits, unemployment benefits, and some maternity payments.

Pensioners can't claim any of them - because they are getting a pension.

So, what would be the point of them paying? Many, including me, pay income tax etc because that covers many things.🙄

NI isn’t hypothecated - it’s just tax. Pensioners are paying lower tax while using more services.

Ginmonkeyagain · 10/11/2023 09:39

@coffeeaddict77 indeed. My dad is an early boomer - he is a tenant farmer who has worked since he was 16 and doesn't have a pot to piss in.

My wider point is there is nothing ti be gained by general anecdotes about how much poorer individals in each generation are or were. It is a cohort problem.

Simply the funding assumptions for state pensions and NHS health care did not take in to account how large the current retiring generation would be in comparision with the two working generations below.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 10/11/2023 09:40

Pensioners are paying lower tax

Bullshit. Pensioners pay the same tax as everyone else based on their income. Why they don't pay NI has been explained upthread.

Roundandroundandroundsound · 10/11/2023 09:42

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · Today 09:40

Pensioners are paying lower tax

Bullshit. Pensioners pay the same tax as everyone else based on their income. Why they don't pay NI has been explained upthread.

They're not paying the same, because they don't pay NI which is a further tax that is only paid by workers. Your "explanation" is wrong.

Zebedee55 · 10/11/2023 09:44

WeightWhat · 10/11/2023 09:37

NI isn’t hypothecated - it’s just tax. Pensioners are paying lower tax while using more services.

I'm paying the same tax rate as anyone else, and am using few services. I'm certainly using less than a young family.

NI used to be separated to provide for contributory benefits.

dottiedodah · 10/11/2023 09:44

Many older people had high interest rates, People born in the 40s and 50s often left School and went straight to working.They have paid into a full State pension! Each generation seems to think they "had it worse" than the one before somehow. Many right wing papers seem to be obsessed with "wealthy pensioners" with massive homes ,huge pensions and endless Cruises ! Many are just getting by !

BIossomtoes · 10/11/2023 09:44

WeightWhat · 10/11/2023 09:37

NI isn’t hypothecated - it’s just tax. Pensioners are paying lower tax while using more services.

It’s a tax which is and always has been linked to work, hence the employers’ contributions and the minimum number of years contributions required to qualify for a state pension. A radical reform of the tax and benefits system would be needed to change that. Such a substantial change to the social contract would have to be part of a party’s manifesto and I guarantee no party that proposed it would ever be elected.

How are you working out that pensioners are using more services? They’re not using childcare or education, they’re using different services, not more.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 10/11/2023 09:45

Roundandroundandroundsound · 10/11/2023 09:42

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · Today 09:40

Pensioners are paying lower tax

Bullshit. Pensioners pay the same tax as everyone else based on their income. Why they don't pay NI has been explained upthread.

They're not paying the same, because they don't pay NI which is a further tax that is only paid by workers. Your "explanation" is wrong.

OK, for the hard of thinking on this thread, the same INCOME tax as everyone else.

They're not paying the same, because they don't pay NI which is a further tax that is only paid by workers. Your "explanation" is wrong

Yes, a tax paid by WORKERS. You've just answered your own question there.

downdowndowndowndown · 10/11/2023 09:45

Roundandroundandroundsound · 10/11/2023 09:15

Flowers4me · Today 09:05

What I've noticed is how some younger people respond negatively or defensively to older people talking about their pasts. For many of us it is natural stage of our lives to want to talk about our histories; it helps us to make sense of it and to process any unresolved loss and grief. So it saddens me when some younger people react to this and shut us down by criticising or insulting us

Do you mean in the contact of this thread or generally? If you mean here then I think it's fair because the thread is about how retired people can't expect things to continue exactly as they are. It's just not possible. There isn't enough workers (and therefore money) to support it. And it really isn't fair that workers are expected to pay more and more to support today's retired when it isn't what they will be able to enjoy themselves. But about 90% of the responses from older people are about how tough they had it when they were young (which I'm sure is true) and how they therefore deserve it now. It's tone deaf. Young people today also have it tough - I would say tougher to be honest, sure most of them have phones and go abroad once a year but they have no hope of a home of their own, or a future like they see older people now enjoying, so why should t they have a few nice things?
What I see is older people shutting down the younger generation with insults about how they're lazy and have everything given to them on a plate, even though that's blatantly not true.
If however you mean in the wider world them that's different and I'm sorry you feel like that.

This is exactly my point. NOT bashing older people. NOT dismissing their experiences. Just querying how we are going to keep paying people to live for 30/40 years past retirement.

OP posts:
Pipsquiggle · 10/11/2023 09:46

I think my parents have lived at a nice time (78 & 75)

Free uni
Creation of the NHS
final salary pensions
No wars directly affecting them
Being able to buy a house and pay it off early
Living 'well' to an old age
Pension that enables them to go on 2 cruises a year!

I do think they had pretty impoverished childhoods compared to mine and my DC though

Zebedee55 · 10/11/2023 09:47

Very few people went to Uni then - families often needed youngsters out working.

MrsDanversGlidesAgain · 10/11/2023 09:48

Just querying how we are going to keep paying people to live for 30/40 years past retirement

Are you going to expect that the generation under you to do that when you retire?

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