To wonder how people can be bothered with electric cars on long distances.

[dixeypeach]

We've had to rent a car for a week, only one they had ready was a fully electric Mercedes, never drove one but we thought they must be alright as loads of people have them. Dear god. Since Tuesday it's had to be charged 4 times and the nearest fast charging one from us is 12 miles away. Full charge gives you 200 miles (219 max miles) which I think is rubbish also if you can't find a fast charging one some take 7 hrs to fully charge 🤦🏻‍♀️ Got caught short yesterday trying to find a charger that wasn't in use or blocked by someone parked in front (not using) the whole thing just gives me bad anxiety😬 at 3:30 today we've got to do a 370 mile round trip to pick our daughter up, we haven't even set off and it feels like a huge effort to find somewhere near her to charge it up to drive home 😳 I mean yeah people have them at home if they own one but surely when doing long journeys you feel the same panic I do!?

Hybrid always sounded better to me, but we’re both so disorganised so was just always terrified (not that we’re close to getting one!)

I drive one of the first Nissan Leaf’s. Range is 67 miles 😂😂 it’s shit. We only keep it for school runs and to local shops because we don’t have to pay tax. Once they introduce tax for EVs to the scrap heap it goes and we’ll be buying petrol. So rather defeats the object of it being more green!

They no good if you do serious mileage in a day. We have a motorbike with 200 mile range (motorway) and even that is annoying because we have to stop 5-10 mins for fuel every 3 hours just imagine if you had to step an hour+ to recharge...

We regularly travel 9-10 hours to Scotland and at least once a year to Italy via france and/Germany... until you can swop out batteries or they charge in 10 mins it simply isn't viable

@amyboo we have chargers everywhere in the U.K. too? Just not enough on busy motorways and they don't charge quick enough plus cost varies dramatically and isn't clear

Where do people think the electricity is coming from that is charging these cars? Because in the main it's still fossil fuels
No it isn't.
The proportions vary depending on time and weather conditions of course, as well as demand but in the UK it's no longer true that electricity is mainly generated from fossil fuels. We are charging our car as I write and the National Grid live data tells me that right now 15.7% of electricity is coming from fossil fuels, of which 1.5% is coal and the rest natural gas.
And the trend in fossil fuel use for electricity is downward, meaning that as our car ages it will be using less fossil fuels and producing less CO2. Nobody has managed to produce an internal combustion engine that improves in efficiency with age and they never will.
Of course there are other environmental issues to consider, it's not black and white. The CO2 footprint of manufacture is much higher for EVs currently for instance. We reckon our car has just about broken even on that now compared to its ICE equivalent and we've had it about a year.
But it just isn't true that most of our electricity comes from fossil fuels. If you live in say Poland which still mainly relies on coal fired power stations then that's fair comment, but not in the UK.

That’s not what happens. Electric cars can usually be upgraded via software- the components don’t need changing like ICE. They just get plugged in like an iPhone update.

That's great if it's what actually what happens, but considering that phones usually die after two or three years and no software update can keep them working at all for a lot longer than that - let alone bringing them up to the spec of brand new ones - I remain sceptical that the EV manufacturers either can do it or otherwise will have the economic desire to do so.

if you don’t want to join the bandwagon that’s absolutely fine. Not sure why everyone feels the need to justify to themselves why they don’t want to get one. those of us who love our EVs won’t be offended.

Do you not take any notice of the news at all? New ICE cars will be banned in a few years, so we will be forced to join the bandwagon. Watch for the tax on petrol and diesel to climb exponentially soon, even for those who still have perfectly functional ICE vehicles.

Meanwhile, ULEZ schemes are punishing those who don't upgrade and artificially reducing their value on the second-hand market, speeding their demise. I realise that a lot of newer petrol and diesel cars are currently compliant, but you can't seriously think that they won't keep moving the goalposts (and increasing the charges) until no ICE vehicles will be compliant before too long?

It's not like, say, deciding that you aren't interested in Taylor Swift or Ed Sheeran, when the music of thousands of other artists remains freely available to you in perpetuity; the net is closing in so that your options to decline the EV 'bandwagon' will become fewer, further between and vastly more expensive.

Conversely to now, where some car parks have a handful of spaces reserved only for EVs to charge, the balance will tip soon, so that the number of spaces available for parking non-EVs will become more and more limited, with a fight for spaces and, realistically, the hastened non-viability of continuing to use ICE vehicles. The government will never forcibly remove your petrol or diesel car from you; they will use much more subtle ways to force you to 'decide to give it up'.

I drive one of the first Nissan Leaf’s. Range is 67 miles 😂😂 it’s shit. We only keep it for school runs and to local shops because we don’t have to pay tax. Once they introduce tax for EVs to the scrap heap it goes and we’ll be buying petrol. So rather defeats the object of it being more green!

But, but, but... you don't seem to understand what we're being assured here: that you can just apply for a software upgrade, so that you will then enjoy a 200-300 mile range, like more modern EVs offer. Silly you!!!!!

Thank you  @AlltheFs

@FatherJackHackettsUnderpantsHamper - software update will update features. Keeping the car up to date and not ‘dated’ like current cars. It won’t magically install a larger battery on a small battery ev car. The old Nissan leaf has one of the lowest battery ranges.

Newer ev cars could have a large battery installed in 10 years if they wanted a new larger range. But if your driving a current car with 500k rather than 80km range you aren’t going to need to really

OP not all EVs are the same. If you had rented a Tesla model 3 with nearly 400 miles of range and access to the supercharger network then you probably would be posting telling us all how EVs are amazing and the future.

And this is the issue.
How many of us can afford a Tesla or a car of similar calibre?
I am seriously considering replacing my old diesel with an electric car, but I will have to consider costs and the charging infrastructure very carefully.

Totally agree! I love mine, it's brilliant. People don't seem to understand how it all works and are just so negative about them! I'll just continue saving lots of money on petrol and filling up at petrol stations. My car fills up whilst I am asleep 😎

@RampantIvy - if people are leasing, a leased car of similar size now costs around the same as leasing a petrol of same size. Ie for us to lease it was cheaper to get electric vw id4 v vw Tiguan (petrol).
With dh work he also has the option of a Tesla model 3 for about €200 a month as salary sacrifice thing - we dont need second car and happy with the id4 so won’t change yet, but that’s a pretty cheap lease

Thank you @Caspianberg.
I have never leased a car, and had never considered doing so, but it might be the way forward. Although at our age (65 and 71) I would rather not have the financial burden of having to pay out something every month.

It is something I am seriously considering though. This thread has been very informative, and it is useful to get people's personal experiences.

I personally never got the anxiety about car range. I treat my electric car just like I used to treat my old diesel. I know how far I’m going and know how much electricity/diesel I have left a d factor that in.

I have a longe range Tesla which gives me 391 miles. I will rarely go anywhere near that in one drive but I’ve done London to Cumbria and did one supercharge at the services. By the time I’d gone to the toilet and bought a coffee at my planned stop, I had more enough charge to get me the rest of the way. I then charged overnight at friends house bunging then a tenner for the leccy usage when it was time to do the return journey.

If you put your journey into the satnav, the car show you how much power you’ll have for the return trip so you can plan your refuel.

All types of vehicle require filling up, you just don’t let them get very low and plan in decent time to refill. In all my time driving my electric car, I’ve never seen an electric stop suddenly in the road with a flat battery.

@RampantIvy - yes some people prefer to buy outright. But whilst the new prices are high it often makes sense to lease. You also have the option of taking a short lease of 12 months so you can try out

I checked autotrader to see what you could get with a ‘normal’ budget. £10,000 could get you a car with a range of about 250 miles which is better than I expected tbh! Home charge time about 7 hours and public charge time about 1 hour. £20,000 would get slightly more range but you would only get a range of more than 300 miles by buying a 5ish year old Tesla.

The process of making a new electric car is actually really bad for the environment, I would have thought endlessly leasing brand new EVs would negate any good from going electric. As with anything, the most sustainable option is to use your existing car (inc petrol/diesel) as long as you can before.

software update will update features. Keeping the car up to date and not ‘dated’ like current cars. It won’t magically install a larger battery on a small battery ev car. The old Nissan leaf has one of the lowest battery ranges.

Exactly - so some improvements can be made with software updates, but you still need to replace the car or a very expensive significant component to make it work as well as a newer one.

The Nissan Leaf is a maximum of 13 years old and PP has found its function to be pretty much obsolete. We have a 22yo petrol car - standard VW - that has not suffered from this at all. When we scrap it - probably before too many more years, to be fair - it will be because the car as a whole has served its time and is at the end of its life, and not because of one big elephant-in-the-room Achilles' heel that could have been predicted from when it was first made.

I personally never got the anxiety about car range. I treat my electric car just like I used to treat my old diesel. I know how far I’m going and know how much electricity/diesel I have left a d factor that in.

But the anxiety stems mainly from the limited availability of chargers and the time it takes to charge. Even if all cars only did 200-250 miles in one go, I don't think most people would see it as a significant issue if they knew they could pull over almost anywhere when they needed to recharge, be sure of being able to do so, and it only taking five minutes before they're on their way again.

@FatherJackHackettsUnderpantsHamper - no, the Nissan lead has always been a low range car. It’s sold as a local run around in town. 60 miles is still fine in 20 years time for someone who just needs car for local town run around, which is what everyone knew that car was. If you bought a Nissan leaf with only 60mile range, expecting it to be easy to use on motorway long drives then you are a fool. You buy one with 250-350 range and it’s easy

@GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER I took mine to Bordeaux this summer. I live in the North West. It was a breeze. Network in France is great.
We stopped at superfast chargers and by the time we'd had a coffee and used the loo we could move on. We stopped for lunch at one place for a longer charge on the way back.