'Free Childcare' - Are your future plans dependent on this?

[KateyCuckoo]

Are you counting down the days until this starts in April?

I'm starting to wonder how this is all going to pan out. Speaking to providers, they are worried and listening to parents, they are unaware and breezy about the whole thing. I can't help but feel that it's going to be lose lose situation when I was always hopeful it would be win win.

I spoke to one mum the day after it was announced back in the Spring and she thought it was starting immediately, that providers just sent off their invoices to the government and got paid, deal complete. When I explained how it actually worked, she was crushed. How and why I don't know.

I've also spoken to many more people in the interim and no one seems to be concerned except for providers. Some parents are making plans based on the funding easing their finances so they can afford to move house, have another child, drop work hours, change careers.

Have you made plans for when you start to receive 'free childcare? funded not free

Yep, which makes me think a few things

1. The Tories know it won’t be happening and don’t care.
2. The nurseries on this thread people have spoken to who’ve said they’ll provide the ‘partially funded’ hours won’t be doing it in reality, because when they have the actual figures and try to work it out, they’ll realise they can’t make ends meet.
3. People on this thread who will be pleased with ‘even a saving of £10 a day’, won’t be when they can’t find a nursery who will accept the funded pupils in the first place.
4. staff who are currently on their needs providing childcare won’t be able to offer that same quality of care with increased ratios and will either leave for a less stressful/better paid job (many have already done that) or there will be safety issues.

I agree they should just allow top ups.
Pre schools exist for short day, term time early years education that is free. Make sure there is more availability for people that want that.
Private day nurseries which are needed for childcare shouldn’t have to operate under the same structure. I would much rather the nursery could just say ‘from 2/3 your normal fees are -£4 an hour for X hours which is the government contribution, you pay the rest’. It’s still a saving and most who need private nurseries that I know would be happy with that. Rather than making the funded hours scheme so prescriptive and limiting.

Further to the post by @howshouldibehave , there's the possibility the the current government is leaving it to their successor to sort the mess out, with the vague hope that it won't go completely wrong in a way that the wider public notice for several months, but with families affected making it enough of an electoral issue that the Labour Party has to make pledges on it in the campaign.

I think the Tories know they will lose (it's just a question now of how heavily), but they're doing what they can to make the next Labour administration a single term one. So Labour (who were the ones who banned top ups) may have to u-turn on that, annoying those who believe free should mean free, and may of course have to continue the provision (at higher expense that currently envisages, esp if they don't reverse ban on top ups) or be the meanie party cutting provision for children (hitting "hard working families")

So a better idea would have been to expand the tax free childcare scheme, remove the cap and make all childcare tax free and give termly contributions from the government to be spent on childcare as the parent chooses.

The latest EYFS update is part of the strategy by removing some requirements and dumbing it down for childminders. So again quality of care is not a priority

I can’t believe the cap hasn’t changed! It’s such a farce calling it “tax free childcare”, for full time childcare the average saving is less than 10%.
Its ridiculous that it’s even capped, why do
you lose out when you already have to pay more?

I agree it is rediculous having "tax free" and "free hours"

1 - it's not tax free, it's 20% off of the 100% price. Tax is when you had 20% to 100% making 120% so it's not even the same principle - iyswim!?

2 - it's capped at £500 every 3 months which basically means the govt are only prepared to help you out if you put your child in 3 days a week on average, anyone paying for 4 days or above will not benefit from 20% off in the 3rd month.

3 - the "free" hours are not free, they are funded. And it's not even when they turn 3, it's 3.3 years in some cases, even if the child were to start school at 4.0 years old.

4 - a lot of people are so confused by both systems they don't even apply for them.

My guess if the govt have finally realised having millions of women who would want to work, out of work, because of the ridiculous cost of childcare, are wanting to get those women into work to pay tax and increase the economy.
I can only thing they have worked out it's not working on any level and they are looking to change it.
What they've done wrong is tell everyone they are extending the old and clunky system to a larger age group. What they should've done is worked out a new system. It is a shit show but I'm hopeful it helps me out come Sept next year when my little girl is 1!!!

The last guidance we were given was that you can't charge for things needed to meet the EYFS requirements such as paint, paper etc but you could ask for a voluntary sustainability payment ....but the parent can opt out of course if too many do the setting closes.

I imagine that if anyone rejected paying the voluntary top up, they would loose their place?

The sorts of people who would kick up a fuss about paying voluntary contributions are the same ones who would make complaints to the LA or OFSTED sadly.

My youngest will be entitled to the 15 hours from April, they would have been getting the 30 next September anyway. I am just seeing it as I might potentially be “saving” some money from April, but if it didn’t come in then it wouldn’t be the end of the world. I am anxious that the government (be that Tories or Labour) will fiddle around with the system and that I may no longer be eligible for the 30 from next September. I will breathe a sigh of relief when they start school in September 2025! If I had younger children or were planning to have more, I would be very cautious about what I relied on because it doesn’t sound like the new system is very sustainable

We can not make voluntary contributions a condition of a child getting a space.
But what you need to consider is if everyone says no the setting will close.

Extending the tax free to all would just benefit higher earners I'm not sure someone choosing to pay £10k a term should get it tax free.

That’s a bit of a sweeping statement. The current cap is purposely under the average cost of a full time nursery place, let alone the cost in the SE!
The majority of parents who need to have childcare for 5 days due to work are penalised under the current scheme, where it gives the illusion of “tax free” but is actually only a small saving.
Most people who have to pay £2k or more a month for 1 child aren’t doing it when there is a readily available cheaper alternative.

Plus considering the scheme itself is capped at an income of £100k I’ve no idea how you think someone on that salary or less is choosing to pay 10k a term.

Yes, it's not a particularly generous scheme really.

Extending the tax free to all would just benefit higher earners I'm not sure someone choosing to pay £10k a term should get it tax free -@jannier please elaborate on this comment

In west London many of us are paying £2k per month per child for a full time nursery place.

£100k per annum after tax and pension (excluding any student loan repayments etc) only equates to only c.£67k

Even if you are a couple say the other person earns £60k (take home appropriately £44k).

Household income of £111k per annum (less if you have SL, or pay pension contributions)
£9k per month take home

Less

£2.5k mortgage payments (on the low end for the average person in the SE or London in a family home)
£4k nursery fees for 2 children (no govt subsidies to support nursery, not eligible for child benefit - a fairly average/normal number of children to have )
£ 1k bills (£300 CT, £200 utilities, insurances, transportation, phone bills etc)
£400 food (average estimate for average family of 4)

Totals £8k bills

Therefore £1k after bills less if you pay SL, less if you have credit card debt, less when you are buying clothes, gifts etc for family.

Recognise that the base salary is good and a better start point than many others in the country but doesn't mean you are flush with cash nor does it mean you couldn't use the support.

Most people who earn the salaries I'm quoting above in the SE/London require both parents to work full time and as a result it's not a "choice " to spend money on sending their kids to nursery. It's a necessity.

Does anyone know the answer to this?
Dgrandaughter is currently 2. Turns 3 in April 2024 so should get 30 hrs allowance from September. (She is already in nursery 3 days a week so has a place). Will the new rules mean that she will get 15 hours allowance from April 2024?

No one can tell you, nothing has been officially announced yet.

I think most people with children in nursery are worried about the impact it’s going to have. Providers have been short staffed for ages and the waiting lists in our area are 18 months plus. That’s before the “free” places are implemented.

Except it wouldn't, it would benefit everyone including childcare settings.

I think they are likely to be very disappointed. It is irresponsible to make any plans based on the belief they will save a lot of money on childcare the reality will not be as they will expect. They might not even be able to find childcare as many providers are closing. Those that stay open will charge top up fees. They won't be able to afford not to.

20 years ago I had to put name on nursery waiting list very early in pregnancy to ensure a place when I was going back to work after six months. When twin pregnancy was confirmed had to cross fingers that there would be two full time places. Shortage of good nursery places isn’t new.

Both settings here that do funded places, and the 4 local childminders, have all said that unless the funding amount is drastically increased they won’t be offering it.

One nursery already stopped offering funded places when the LA cracked down on top ups.

It’s going to be a shit show.

Reminds me a bit of the respite shit show atm. We have an excellent respite budget for our Dd. Ticks a lot of “offered help” boxes. Absolutely no help whatsoever as there are no respite places but on paper it looks good. Much like this plan.

It's not new but it's worsening.

Bloody hell, are there really people that stupid?