'Free Childcare' - Are your future plans dependent on this?

[KateyCuckoo]

Are you counting down the days until this starts in April?

I'm starting to wonder how this is all going to pan out. Speaking to providers, they are worried and listening to parents, they are unaware and breezy about the whole thing. I can't help but feel that it's going to be lose lose situation when I was always hopeful it would be win win.

I spoke to one mum the day after it was announced back in the Spring and she thought it was starting immediately, that providers just sent off their invoices to the government and got paid, deal complete. When I explained how it actually worked, she was crushed. How and why I don't know.

I've also spoken to many more people in the interim and no one seems to be concerned except for providers. Some parents are making plans based on the funding easing their finances so they can afford to move house, have another child, drop work hours, change careers.

Have you made plans for when you start to receive 'free childcare? funded not free

I guarantee settings aren't really looking forward to it!

More paperwork.

More waiting for payments.

More hassle if children leave mid term.

More hassle dancing to the tune of the LA.

More grief from parents over top up fees (which aren't even technically allowed thanks to the government!)

They haven't done it to inconvenience parents. They've done it because they can't afford to stay open.

I'm not holding my breath that these changes will make a difference. As I understand it, there's a staffing crisis in childcare and (inadequate) government funding is unlikely to address that. I'm certainly not banking on seeing any benefit for my second DC and it wasn't on our minds at all when we decided to try for baby number 2.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that things ease slightly in April (currently paying around £1300 per month for childcare) but not making any plans that depend on it. Both the childminder and nursery that DD attends have confirmed that they will offer the funded hours from April. Not sure what the financial impact would be, exactly, but any saving would be great!

That's not very sensible!

I work in a nursery. We as staff haven't been told anything yet but I think we'll offer the funding- only possible as we're part of a chain. Many nurseries won't be able to offer it, or will do so but end up closing as a result. It's not just about the pathetic amount that the government pay as funding, or the fact that top ups aren't allowed- only additional service fees- it's also that there's a massive staffing crisis currently. 5 or so years ago you might have 10 applicants for a position, now you get one applicant if you're lucky. And my setting pays fairly well as far as nursery staff pay goes- more than minimum wage at least! You can't run a nursery without staff!

I have read also that the 9 month old funded hours doesn't apply until the term after they turn 9 months, meaning that some babies will actually be almost 14 months before they qualify. That's a long time for parents who have made plans according to the funded hours!

I already have a baby in nursery and am paying full whack. I’m seeing the extra hours we get free in April as a potential ‘nice to have’…not relying on it, but it would be great if it happened! Then obviously there is the 30 hours we will (hopefully) definitely get when they turn 3. Although there is a GE coming up so I am not 100% relying on that either 🤷‍♀️

Funding is term time only at 15 or 30 hours unless you find a setting that allows you to stretch it over the weeks they are open....averaging 11/22 hours.
Settings receive a rate set by each LA typically a lot less than the money needed to survive. There are rules on how they can offer hours and on any additional charges.
Every 3 year old is entitled to 15 hours the term after turning 3 if each resident parent works 16 hours or more and earns less than a household income of £200k your eligible for the additional 15 hours even if you only work 16 hours
In England Funding can be used at any Ofsted registered setting ...childminder, pre school, private nursery or school nursery. In general childminders are the most flexible in hours that they accept funding. The maximum hours a day is 10

Like you said, it's only a discount, not complete free childcare.

My 3 year old son currently gets 30 free hours, but we still still have to pay a few hundred pounds to the nursery. I'm not complaining, it is a massive help (plus the tax free childcare).

My daughter turns 2 in February so will be eligible for the 15 hours free childcare in February. Another discount that is always welcome, but of course not complete free childcare.

I'm currently pregnant with Nr. 3 and I'm looking forward when they get their 15 hours.

Any help is welcome.

Imagine thinking the tories are 'pumping billions' in to anything other than their own bank accounts 😄

www.theguardian.com/money/2023/nov/06/staff-exodus-could-hinder-expansion-of-free-childcare-in-england-providers-say

Yep, only 17% of nurseries actually think they can offer it and that’s only if this government actually continue to exist. I really wouldn’t be getting my hopes up with this!

The industry would disagree with your view that the government has done their research ....and the glaring mistakes and its oversights in Covid doesn't give anyone any confidence that they understand the industry at all....and as many had nannies then prep and boarding school how would they?
The emphasis has been on changing ratios so staff can do twice the work (safety and education out the window) to maintain the same income as now along with offering between £500 and £1000 to childminders setting up yet nurseries and childminders are closing at a faster rate than ever.

Another argument that the sector has been having for years unfortunately the government won't change the name as they can't lose face they said it would be free their own advisors told them the amount of my ney required to be sustainable and they ignored it.
There was additional lift up funding offered for 3 year olds this year we've finally been given our back dated money and it's penny's per hour around 3 to 6p

It doesn't start until April.

Sorry, I meant to write April

The government will have to make some huge inroads into persuading people to become childminders or work in nurseries. Lots have left because the pay simply isn’t worth their while.

Absolutely, they can't even retain the numbers they have let alone increase places to keep up with the demand that this scheme will create.

Nurseries currently cross subsidise 3+ fundeeld places with the higher fees they receive for younger babies.

The money has to come from somewhere.

If people see it as a bit of a booster, a discount to paying full fees, & nurseries can get away with structuring to ensure they recover the difference, it could be ok. & give a welcome reduction to childcare costs.

If the government stubbornly insist on claiming its "free" childcare and trying to force private providers to offer places at a loss, it will damage the sector by putting providers out of business, or alternatively they will simply opt out and nowhere will offer funded places.

@EvenBetta - the Guardian article is based on the press release linked with the report I posted upthread. That report is the best source of accurate information on this topic.

My nursery has already said they won't be able to offer any significant savings. The other nursery we looked at said they'd be able to reduce costs by £10 a day but that was all; or they wouldn't be able to keep the lights on.

I do think help is needed - If we were to put DS into nursery for 5 days a week, it'd cost more than DH earns. He does two mornings at the moment and it costs the same as our mortgage.

But it also has to be fair on the staff, safe in terms of ratios, and good quality for the children. It has to make financial sense. There has to be enough nurseries offering spaces that parents can access one - This will be the death knell for a lot of them, and where I live is already massively oversubscribed. We joined a waiting list for our two days when I was 14 weeks pregnant. He still has only managed to start doing two days just after turning two. They just had no room before.

I strongly suspect this is the Tories buying votes from a demographic that wouldn't typically vote for them, and then planning to get rid of it as unworkable after the election, the same as Labour would.

The Guardian article is a good summary. Come April I anticipate there being a lot of disappointed parents not finding a nursery to offer the funded hours.

The thing is for us even £10 a day saving would mean £120 a month - certainly make some difference to us

Not to mention the funds the government pays the provider is way below cost - so parents are having to top it up

Top ups were banned, under an earlier iteration of the scheme (about 2004?)

Have they actually been permitted now? Or is it still the raft of sharp practices which grew up since then? (ancilliary fees, or higher rates outside the scheme)

Exactly that, and some LAs have got even stricter. So some of the additional activites provided (at a higher cost to the setting) cannot be charged for as they are saying that should be standard as part of delivering the EYFS.

Basically food and nappies and extra hours can be charged for and then parents get outraged that this comes to £30/£40 per day. They feel overcharged but don't realise that this is because the government are forcing them to be creative with invoicing.

Why don't.they just allow top ups? Parents would be happier because they would know where they stood and settings would be less at risk if closing.

Actually the bit I'm most bewildered by, is that settings have been told nowt! How can any setting know if they will be taking part when we don't know how much the funding will be? That's ultimately the essence of the whole thing!

We've got approx 16 term weeks until this starts!

Luckily I'm past this stage but I genuinely can't see how it's going to run smoothly. If I did have a nursery age child I wouldn't be relying on it to start on time. This government couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.