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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Could exh take me to court...

39 replies

rougeroses · 07/11/2023 13:01

Second thread about him in 24 hours. Please bear with me.

I've spoken to social services this morning in regard to exh seeing our son.

Exh is an abusive narcissist. Called the police about him recently. Got him blocked on everything except an email address.

Exh wanted to see ds tonight but as I am not ready too see him yet, I have suggested next week would be better instead - through email. He has not seen ds for 10 days and has only seen him a few times since September. We have no arrangement for childcare so I am not breaking anything by saying he can see ds next week instead.

Exh has replied that he doesn't want to see ds until all our other things are sorted and he is going to take me to court for the following:

I was given a house through a housing association (very lucky I know) and it was in a terrible state. At this time, things between exh and myself were good. He came to view the house and offered to do it up for me. I did not ask. I did not have to pay him for labour (I offered many times but he declined) just materials.

The work began and over the months I thought I saw a real change in exh. He was in therapy and looked to be sorting his issues. We decided that we would give it a year and then he would move in if things were good. He carried on doing the work - this did take up all of his time. It was a lot of work. He also paid for odd materials which again, I never asked him too. I always said no I would pay….but as we were getting on I thought it was ok. He also paid no maintenance towards our son at this time too. But there was no issues at this point.

I then moved into the house and exh started to stay here on occasions. I bought a bunk bed for my step son too stay here (exh son). Exh had some belongings here and he also set his sky tv account up here and his broadband.

Soon after I moved in, exh was back to his old abusive ways. He left me and asked for his stuff and gave me back his keys. It’s been shit since then and I’ve had to call the police . He will not leave me alone and is a nasty piece of work.

I will have many text messages saying that he wants to do the work for free. That he is going to class it as his home. His son classes it as his home.

We are still married. Not filled for divorce yet - too scared too. He is not on the tenancy or bills apart form the sky tv.

He is now demanding I pay him money for all the labour he did on my home and for the materials he paid for. He is threatening to take me to court if I don’t pay.

Apparently he spoken to citizens advice and he has a good case.

Anyone advice? So sorry this is so long. It’s all just another threat. I know I was stupid for letting him do the work in the first place but please believe when I say, he is very very persistent and persuasive!

OP posts:
xILikeJamx · 07/11/2023 13:04

Sounds like a load of bollocks. There was presumably no contracts in place, no invoicing, no receipts, no bookkeeping, etc, etc, etc. so he's almost certainly just talking shit.

WhamBamThankU · 07/11/2023 13:04

You have message evidence that he was essentially gifting you his time and materials. Let him take you to court.

rougeroses · 07/11/2023 13:06

xILikeJamx · 07/11/2023 13:04

Sounds like a load of bollocks. There was presumably no contracts in place, no invoicing, no receipts, no bookkeeping, etc, etc, etc. so he's almost certainly just talking shit.

Yeah nothing at all. I have receipts of the materials that I have paid for and proof in my bank statements.

Definitely no invoices or anything like that. He didn't take it on as a job. He took it on to help me out.

OP posts:
Ibravedaflood · 07/11/2023 13:08

File for divorce.. Claim cms. And laugh in his face about what YOU owe HIM..

Quitelikeit · 07/11/2023 13:08

Sadly you are still caught in the cycle of abuse.

Each time you communicate with this man you are feeding him.

Advise him that you have electronic proof he agreed to complete the works for free and that will be presented in court if he takes you there.

Tell him you will check your email once a week on a Friday from here on in

rougeroses · 07/11/2023 13:10

I've literally got messages from him only 2 weeks ago saying he will come and complete the last pieces of work on the house and I don't need to worry about anything.

This is all just because I'm trying to stand up for myself and escape him.

He is up to his eyeballs in debt so I doubt very much he would take me to court. I'm expecting he will email me with a figure that he wants. I'll then say we can deal with it through the courts.

At least I now have proof that he doesn't want to see his son. All this is just because I have cancelled tonight's visit because I don't feel exh is mentally well enough and i feel very very uncertain. This is the response I get.

OP posts:
Willyoujustbequiet · 07/11/2023 13:10

It's bluff.

You are married. Any outstanding financial issues will be dealt with under the consent order. 50/50 asset split is the starting point but as you are the resident parent it's highly likely to be weighted in your favour. CAB will have told him that.

Either wait for him to petition you or start it yourself. Apply to CMS separately. If you are low income you can be exempt from court fees. If there is DA you may be eligible for legal aid too.

CathyAnne91 · 07/11/2023 13:11

He hasn’t got a leg to stand on by the sounds of it. This is just another form of abuse he’s trying.

Allocate 1 hour / time frame to deal with your email correspondence with him and that’s that. Xx

rougeroses · 07/11/2023 13:14

Quitelikeit · 07/11/2023 13:08

Sadly you are still caught in the cycle of abuse.

Each time you communicate with this man you are feeding him.

Advise him that you have electronic proof he agreed to complete the works for free and that will be presented in court if he takes you there.

Tell him you will check your email once a week on a Friday from here on in

I know, it's crap.

I have literally spent all morning on the phone to social services and my local domestic abuse charity and I've followed their advice about cancelling tonight's visit.

I sent him in email saying we can start it next week and I don't wish to speak about anything other than ds. I knew I would get a shitty response from him. And I know there will be more to come.

I didn't quite have enough evidence for a non molestation order when calling the police sadly.

OP posts:
rougeroses · 07/11/2023 13:17

He also put in the email that he cannot believe that I am playing the victim.

The last time I saw him he took my phone off me and looked through it. He is convinced I am in a new relationship. I'm not. This is in my home.

He refused to leave when I asked him too. Kept asking me over and over 'why are you being like this?'

Then told me he was going to kill himself and it would be all my fault as he eventually left.

OP posts:
Octavia64 · 07/11/2023 13:21

You are married.

He was staying over there, as was his son.

You have evidence he intended to do the work for free.

His case will be laughed out of court.

He is trying to manipulate you.

No court in the land would say you needed to pay.

rougeroses · 07/11/2023 13:27

Octavia64 · 07/11/2023 13:21

You are married.

He was staying over there, as was his son.

You have evidence he intended to do the work for free.

His case will be laughed out of court.

He is trying to manipulate you.

No court in the land would say you needed to pay.

I'm actually really glad I haven't filed for divorce. I don't know if it would count as evidence or not but I've got hundreds of messages from him saying he loves me and wants this to work. He will do anything. He will change etc etc.....I've got it all. As well as 2 calls to the police, calls to social services, working with the domestic abuse charity. He also now fully admits he doesn't want to see his son. He is vile.

I'm doing a course on domestic abuse at the moment through a women's charity. It's absolutely amazing. I'm sure the charity does free legal advice so I'll see if I can have a chat with them too.

I know everyone is right here - I truly am just so fed up of this.

OP posts:
rougeroses · 07/11/2023 13:55

Ffs sake....he's just sent me another email saying it doesn't have to be like this....he's not a bad person and as he is now in a new relationship (🎉🥳🍾 he expects me to be devastated 😂) and moving forward with them, he just wants things right for our son.

This is an hour after he said he doesn't wish to see him.

What an absolute wanker.

Not replying to that either.

Sorry everyone - I just can't get over this idiot that I married.

When will I learn not to take his empty threats seriously 🙄😂

OP posts:
FSTraining · 07/11/2023 14:24

You're married so a lot of the detail that you have provided is not relevant (a lot of the facts would become relevant if you were not married). I'm not sure if you own the house or are a tenant but if you do own it then it is a marital asset and will be divided accordingly. Some explanation and questions to follow:

I've spoken to social services this morning in regard to exh seeing our son.

Who got social services involved, you or EXH?

Exh is an abusive narcissist. Called the police about him recently.

Diagnosed or your opinion? Police involvement due to DV?

We have no arrangement for childcare so I am not breaking anything by saying he can see ds next week instead.

He might consider taking you to court for a Child Arrangement Order, although I note he has also said he won't see DS until other things are sorted (seems a bit odd of him but okay).

I was given a house through a housing association (very lucky I know) and it was in a terrible state. At this time, things between exh and myself were good. He came to view the house and offered to do it up for me. I did not ask. I did not have to pay him for labour (I offered many times but he declined) just materials.

If you were not married and you owned the property this might be relevant to whether he is a beneficiary of a constructive trust in the property for the work performed. It may be interpreted on the balance of probabilities that there was a common intention to share the property. However, you are married so this is irrelevant. What is relevant is that it is a marital asset in the pot for division based on your respective needs and the court has full discretion about how it is divided.

It was a lot of work. He also paid for odd materials which again, I never asked him too. I always said no I would pay….but as we were getting on I thought it was ok.

Same as above.

He also paid no maintenance towards our son at this time too. But there was no issues at this point.

Okay, so you were separated but not divorced throughout this time?

I then moved into the house and exh started to stay here on occasions.

This means it started becoming the family marital home.

I bought a bunk bed for my step son too stay here (exh son).

Then a little more....

Exh had some belongings here and he also set his sky tv account up here and his broadband.

And that pretty much sealed it. All assuming you own it of course.

He left me and asked for his stuff and gave me back his keys.

So he has now moved out and not moved back in? He will still have matrimonial home rights unless you have an NMO in place, do you?

That he is going to class it as his home. His son classes it as his home.

He seems to be right about that.

We are still married. Not filled for divorce yet - too scared too. He is not on the tenancy or bills apart form the sky tv.

When you say tenancy, what do you mean? Do you mean you hold the legal title or you are a leaseholder? And if a leaseholder, is that long or short term? As in, is this an assured or fixed term tenancy?

He is now demanding I pay him money for all the labour he did on my home and for the materials he paid for. He is threatening to take me to court if I don’t pay.

If the house is not owned then I doubt there is much he will be able to do about it. If you do own it, then it will be considered a marital asset and fighting over who spent what on it is pointless because that's not how a FMH is divided.

Apparently he spoken to citizens advice and he has a good case.

Possibly, if it is owned. He probably does have a case if you are only a tenant but not as strong a case.

rougeroses · 07/11/2023 14:32

No I don't own the house. The house is in my name on an assured tenancy.

There's too many questions to answer. The police got social services involved after I rang them to do a welfare check on him.
I called the police. Not for the first time. They said domestic abuse and passed me onto the domestic violence team. I have spoken to them too.

He has a huge criminal record and has been abusive in the past - Claire's law is wonderful. Shame I didn't know about it earlier.

As for being a narc, no he is not diagnosed. Not many are. I've just been told he is one from my therapy sessions, from my domestic abuse charity I work with.

I don't own the property and we are married. I have not filled for divorce yet.

Sorry there's a lot of questions you asked and I'm not sure if I've covered them all

OP posts:
Atethehalloweenchocs · 07/11/2023 14:46

Unless there is a big piece of this missing, there is no way the CAB told him he has a case against you. He is full of shit. Who knows what he told them - if anything - but he has no claim for his time or materials. PLEASE please speak to the charitys' legal advisor and sort out how you can get divorced. I know it is scary, but it will protect you when he starts up his shit in future.

FSTraining · 07/11/2023 14:47

I think the fact that this is not a house acquired by right to buy but is in fact a tenancy helps you. It also helps that he is not on the tenancy.

The fact is that you are married and therefore your finances are combined until you divorce. Any "claim" he has against you is a matter for the financial settlement, not debt collection.

It helps that he is not on the tenancy too. Courts can and do order one person off a housing association tenancy but only reluctantly if one person is going to end up homeless. However, because he is not on the tenancy and you have primary care of your DS it's rather a simple matter of keeping the status quo.

The only possibility is that he has gone into debt to do the repairs; the court might decide it is fair that you assume some or all of the responsibility for those. Not the work he carried out though.

LakeTiticaca · 07/11/2023 14:50

Don't engage with him in any way shape or form. Even when he starts being nice, which he will. Don't be fooled. He would have a hard time proving you agreed to pay for the work he did. Keep the messages as proof.
Lastly I wouldn't take too much notice of Citizens Advice.
They gave me duff information on 2 separate occasions x

rougeroses · 07/11/2023 14:54

Atethehalloweenchocs · 07/11/2023 14:46

Unless there is a big piece of this missing, there is no way the CAB told him he has a case against you. He is full of shit. Who knows what he told them - if anything - but he has no claim for his time or materials. PLEASE please speak to the charitys' legal advisor and sort out how you can get divorced. I know it is scary, but it will protect you when he starts up his shit in future.

I very much doubt hereby citizens advice in the first place. He lies all the time. He can't even make a doctors appointment himself so there's no way he has spoken to them. I tried to call them earlier and was on hold for an hour and didn't speak to anyone.

It's just another threat to scare me. He's using them all.

I'm going to see my women's charity tomorrow. They are amazing. It's like my second home. I know they will help me.

OP posts:
rougeroses · 07/11/2023 14:57

FSTraining · 07/11/2023 14:47

I think the fact that this is not a house acquired by right to buy but is in fact a tenancy helps you. It also helps that he is not on the tenancy.

The fact is that you are married and therefore your finances are combined until you divorce. Any "claim" he has against you is a matter for the financial settlement, not debt collection.

It helps that he is not on the tenancy too. Courts can and do order one person off a housing association tenancy but only reluctantly if one person is going to end up homeless. However, because he is not on the tenancy and you have primary care of your DS it's rather a simple matter of keeping the status quo.

The only possibility is that he has gone into debt to do the repairs; the court might decide it is fair that you assume some or all of the responsibility for those. Not the work he carried out though.

He has paid it all off months ago. He is 100% not in debt with it. I'd say he spent around £600 on materials.

All he has linked to my home is his sky account. That's all. Was never on any of the bills for anything else. Absolutely everything is in my name.

OP posts:
FartSock5000 · 07/11/2023 15:32

@rougeroses sounds like you're doing everything right. Here are some other things to get started on:

  1. Don't take legal advice from your enemy. Report any threats.
  2. Get Sky in your name.
  3. Remove yourself from any joint and credit accounts. You need to have separate finances for UC and other benefit claims. This will also help establish you are lawfully separated for the divorce later on.
  4. Claim CMS. Don't argue with him over it. Just do it.
  5. Breathe. You are free of him now. You owe him NOTHING.

Congratulations on getting yourself away from a Narc. Its not easy and you are doing great!

rougeroses · 07/11/2023 15:43

FartSock5000 · 07/11/2023 15:32

@rougeroses sounds like you're doing everything right. Here are some other things to get started on:

  1. Don't take legal advice from your enemy. Report any threats.
  2. Get Sky in your name.
  3. Remove yourself from any joint and credit accounts. You need to have separate finances for UC and other benefit claims. This will also help establish you are lawfully separated for the divorce later on.
  4. Claim CMS. Don't argue with him over it. Just do it.
  5. Breathe. You are free of him now. You owe him NOTHING.

Congratulations on getting yourself away from a Narc. Its not easy and you are doing great!

Thank you so much. I am not financially tied to him in anything thankfully. I removed my name off our joint account almost 2 years ago. That was a nightmare, he refused so had to get the bank account frozen.

The sky is worrying me. It's sky glass. I don't know if I can put it in my name without speaking to exh. I'll ring them. If he wants it then he actually owns the tv so someone will have to come and collect it. He pays for the WiFi too. Honestly if I could get that sorted it would be a huge relief. But exh probably won't make it easy as you can see!

I'll do the cms route. He is using sky as a reason not to pay at the moment.

Ds is pretty gutted in not seeing his dad tonight so I'm not going to take him to soft play to cheer him up. It's not like I don't already have a headache 😂

OP posts:
unsync · 07/11/2023 15:43

Focus on what you are learning from you DA course. If it is like the one I did, it is a real eye opener.

He does seem to be running through the whole playbook. I still find it astonishing how predictable the behaviour is. Just remember he is looking after his own interests and will lie to your face to get what he wants. Don't let him manipulate you or use your son. You can't trust him.

Well done for getting the support you need. You can do this.

audihere · 07/11/2023 15:43

my ex tried similar threats after I left him, financial things like demanding I paid him back for a gift he'd bought (an expensive one admittedly but the only thing he'd paid for during a ten year relationship where I'd bailed him out financially every week). I got legal advice and it was clear he'd bought me the gift and so couldn't now try and use it as a threat.
He also said he was going to need child benefit from me as he had our DC some of the week (6 whole hours..). That didn't fly either.

rougeroses · 07/11/2023 15:51

unsync · 07/11/2023 15:43

Focus on what you are learning from you DA course. If it is like the one I did, it is a real eye opener.

He does seem to be running through the whole playbook. I still find it astonishing how predictable the behaviour is. Just remember he is looking after his own interests and will lie to your face to get what he wants. Don't let him manipulate you or use your son. You can't trust him.

Well done for getting the support you need. You can do this.

It's the freedom programme. The women who are doing it with me are amazing. It's such a safe space where everyone understands. I don't want it to end!

OP posts: