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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to replace DDs tablet but not DS'?

54 replies

Notts90 · 06/11/2023 08:06

Bit of background.

My son has SEN. No specific label yet but learning disability. Currently waiting to find out if accepted on the ASD/ADHD pathway.

Anyway, he is prone to aggressive outbursts. The other day his tablet wasn't responding so he chucked it and smashed it. I've already said I won't be replacing.

This morning him and DD were bickering. (DP was downstairs in the bathroom and I was upstairs with baby) DD apparently walloped him with her cardigan. (He wouldn't give her her toy.. 🙄) in retaliation he has now chucked her tablet and cracked the screen.

I am so fed up of these outbursts. School seem to think its confidence related but I'm not too sure? Probably a mix of things.

AIBU to replace DDs given that she didn't throw hers herself?

YABU to only replace one
YANBU to only replace one..

OP posts:
ZenNudist · 06/11/2023 09:00

Oh I said yanbu but your question doesn't fit my answer so really yabu to replace then at all right now. If you do expect it to get broken again.

Mariposista · 06/11/2023 09:02

Do not replace neither. Your son's for obvious reasons, and your daughter's because a 9 year old does not need a screen.

SleepingStandingUp · 06/11/2023 09:06

I'd replace both but put restrictions on when he can have access to it (supervised) and buy good protectors.

He has undiagnosed SEN, he's having outbursts because likely because of his undiagnosed SEN. I wouldn't punish him, I'd put in consequences.

If you can't afford both, I'd get Dd's first.

Neriah · 06/11/2023 09:13

Mariposista · 06/11/2023 09:02

Do not replace neither. Your son's for obvious reasons, and your daughter's because a 9 year old does not need a screen.

How do you know that? You have no idea what the tablet is used for or how it is used. My five year old grandaughter has a tablet, which is used for educational purposes. It doesn't seem to be doing her any harm since she is assessed as significantly advanced for her age.

Op, I would replace DD's when you are able, but I would not replace DS's until a later date, and I would explain when that would be and what is required of him to have that happen - so the tablet is earned, not simply given.

isthismylifenow · 06/11/2023 09:16

Can I ask what they use the tablets for?

May be an odd question to some but my dc are early 20's so I am not sure what a 9 year old would use one for these days.

If they are for homework/school work etc. then get one for the household for each to use when needed and you control the use of.

Tbh I would not be rushing out to buy either of them a new one. Ds damaged his maliciously but your dd was also acting out by hitting him with another object. Why does your dd get off more lightly just because she decided to use a less expensive object to hit him with?

The hitting each other would be more of an issue for me than jumping to replace items.

CrazyHedgehogLover · 06/11/2023 09:27

I would get DDs tablet fixed at Christmas the earliest tbh, she was in the wrong aswell by going up to him and hitting him with her cardigan, if he is prone to outbursts she should really know better and I would personally be having words with her about doing silly things like that.

she should also face some consequences for what has happened because he wouldn’t have chucked her tablet if she didn’t go over and hit him! So a month or so without her tablet should be more than fair so she can learn how to treat others appropriately, hitting is certainly not appropriate.

as for DS I’d replace his at the same time and make sure they both know that if it happens again they will have to replace them in future, whether that be from birthday/Christmas money or pocket money.

replace both or none is my opinion tbh.

Notts90 · 06/11/2023 09:28

They use the tablets for a multitude of things tbh.

Seesaw/Class work
Netflix
TTRS
General games
DD takes pictures with hers or as she calls them "views"
Some YouTube videos about animals and football.

Nothing really out of the ordinary. I don't think it's unusual for children that age to have tablets?

To be fair to DD she asked him numerous times to give back her toy so I'm not really surprised she got annoyed. I do also think she displays some similar traits to DS in that respect but she seems to be able to restrain herself better.

None of them covered themselves in glory.

OP posts:
Notts90 · 06/11/2023 09:33

BertieBotts · 06/11/2023 08:52

You won't get much useful advice here, just loads of assumptions from people without good knowledge of SEN. Try posting in SEN kids section.

Def look into the Amazon scheme to replace screens rather than replacing whole tablet, and get some shock proof cases. Consider keeping tablets inaccessible most of the time and only handing them out for set times to be better able to supervise use. Think about how to future proof this because otherwise it's likely to happen again, and replacing them every time will just be throwing money away. Don't assume that your DS will be able to learn from the natural consequence of his tablet being broken. Impulsive behaviour doesn't work like that.

Your DD is probably reacting in kind because that's what's being modelled to her.

For info about helping reduce the outbursts and managing ADHD in general, these are resources I'd recommend.

The explosive child (but I'd take the FB group with a pinch of salt)
Brain-Body parenting
Russell Barkley (his new YouTube channel is great, something like Russell Barkley phd2023) or his 12 principles book.
Help your child deal with stress and thrive (stupid title, you might see it referred to online as Self-Reg which is better, that's the US title)
Conscious Discipline by Becky A Bailey
Calm the Chaos -actually maybe this one first. Because I like the road map thing where they get you to figure out where you are. It's frustrating when you keep coming across resources that either explain what you already know and not what to do with it, or that assume that you know certain ideas or have certain things already in place.
TheOT butterfly on Instagram
The Occuplaytional Therapist on Facebook
Too fast, too bright, too loud, too tight
Points systems are great for ADHD. This is basically like the reward charts you'd use with a younger child. Any info about how to use a points system will help. Alan Kazdin is great on this. There's a course on coursera called the ABCs of Everyday Parenting.

Sorry that's a lot of stuff to recommend at once! If you can spend an hour or so just looking at each blurb or social media page to get a rough idea, then you'll probably get some sense of which (one, maybe 2-3 max) you want to start with.

Thank you, I'll take a look at the points you've mentioned.

It's all just bloody difficult sometimes. I don't know what behaviour is just typical kid behaviour or what behaviour is down to his additional needs. And even that there are so many opinions on how to actually deal with said behaviour.

I then also worry about the affect his behaviour is having on my daughters as a whole. They are really close in age which probably doesn't help the bickering.

OP posts:
LovelaceBiggWither · 06/11/2023 09:33

I'd replace both and make sure they had decent covers. My kids with ASD were fairly dependent on their screens and it helped with self-regulation if they had access to them. If both screens were broken and only one was replaced, it would have been hell on earth.

I don't think withholding a screen will necessarily teach the lesson you would presume it would in an NT child. I'd do social stories, I'd supervise closely as needed. The rules need to be different with ASD kids.

Notts90 · 06/11/2023 09:35

LovelaceBiggWither · 06/11/2023 09:33

I'd replace both and make sure they had decent covers. My kids with ASD were fairly dependent on their screens and it helped with self-regulation if they had access to them. If both screens were broken and only one was replaced, it would have been hell on earth.

I don't think withholding a screen will necessarily teach the lesson you would presume it would in an NT child. I'd do social stories, I'd supervise closely as needed. The rules need to be different with ASD kids.

This is what I'm thinking if I only replace one it will cause WW3.

They did have covers on, good ones too but I don't think there's many that can withstand a full on throw. 🙈

OP posts:
IncompleteSenten · 06/11/2023 09:35

Ask yourself if you are punishing him for his disability.

With almost all disabilities, people understand that there are challenges (or behaviours) that are present only because of the disability. Blind people cannot see. Deaf people cannot hear. Paralysed people cannot walk etc but when it comes to autism people seem to think the behaviours are a choice. Well yes they have autism which means they do x but it's not an excuse for doing x so they should just... Not do x.

Which they do because of their disability.

How you deal with things has to be different when you are dealing with someone whose behaviours are a direct result of their disability.

My sons are in their 20s. One has autism and webs palsy and the other has autism, ADHD and now mental health problems as well. How we have dealt with issues over the years has been very different. You can't apply the same rules in the same way you would with nt children. It doesn't work and it's unfair.

That's not to say you do nothing. But what you do is different.

IsleofDen · 06/11/2023 09:35

If the tablet helps your son regulate then you should replace both. Children with ASD/ADHD have a different relationship to screens than NT children and while I don’t advocate for unlimited use, things like mealtimes can become infinitely easier for them and you.

Consequences are all well and good, but a consequence that causes resentment and takes away a coping mechanism teaches nothing of value.

I would second the recommendation of The Explosive Child, it might help you work out what’s going on in your son’s head when these things happen.

social stories are useful in their place, but ultimately you need to be teaching him to recognise when he’s disregulated, this involves talking about thoughts, but also physical feelings, does his tummy get tight? Or his jaw clench? What happens in his throat. The aim is to get him to recognise the beginnings and act to calm himself.

This will involve a lot of involvement from you to start with. A lot of talking, and never allowing anyone to treat “time out” as a punishment, it should be a positive step and involve the use of something he finds calming. Tactile things like magnets, Lego or even a chunk of bluetack can work really well. Ensue he has a place to go and don’t ever stop him from going there to calm down.

Walking away from a situation and calming himself down is the aim, if he sees that as a punishment, he will avoid it at all costs (who wants to punish themselves?)

KeyWorker · 06/11/2023 09:36

Could you replace it with one family iPad/device. That way nether child looses access to it but you gain more control of it.

TheOccupier · 06/11/2023 09:36

I wouldn't replace either. They will both behave better without screen time. It's hard to see how much damage it does to children until its taken away.

ToadOnTheHill · 06/11/2023 09:38

Replace DDs.

Punish both for misbehaviour - him for stealing her toy and her for hitting. It is never ok to hit, she should have got an adult.

Do not allow DD to use it in front of him without an adult and do not let him borrow hers.

Replace his at xmas if you want to as part of his xmas budget, not in addition to it, and keep the rule that they cannot use them unsupervised. Or allow him to earn one by doing chores if he wants one sooner e.g. tablet is £100. Emptying dishwasher = 50p, hoovering 50p. Must be tasks that benefit family, not just him.

Whilst I'm personally of the opinion in they shouldn't have their own tablets, as a parent you have decided otherwise, so it's a case of addressing the incident. Saying neither should have them isnt helpful to you X

kaka79 · 06/11/2023 09:44

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kaka79 · 06/11/2023 09:46

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isthismylifenow · 06/11/2023 09:52

Notts90 · 06/11/2023 09:28

They use the tablets for a multitude of things tbh.

Seesaw/Class work
Netflix
TTRS
General games
DD takes pictures with hers or as she calls them "views"
Some YouTube videos about animals and football.

Nothing really out of the ordinary. I don't think it's unusual for children that age to have tablets?

To be fair to DD she asked him numerous times to give back her toy so I'm not really surprised she got annoyed. I do also think she displays some similar traits to DS in that respect but she seems to be able to restrain herself better.

None of them covered themselves in glory.

I am sure it is not too unusual now, it is just that when my dc were that age, tablets were not a thing so I was just trying to find out why they need their own.

So apart from a bit of schoolwork, most is just for the fun bits really?

I do understand what you are saying about your ds being currently undiagnosed, so I am not excluding this at all. I too have ASD diagnosed ds, yet he still had to deal with consequences of bad behaviour. It may settle him yes, but what is to say he won't do the very same again with the next one, or to dd's in spite.

I don't think ASD can be always be excused for not having consequences to actions.

And your dd actions apply here also.

Is there another shared tablet/laptop that they can use in the meantime for the schoolwork that they need to do?

BoohooWoohoo · 06/11/2023 09:54

Amazon tablets will almost certainly be on sale for Black Friday so I would keep an eye out on the site.

Smellslikesummer · 06/11/2023 09:56

FloweryName · 06/11/2023 08:09

How old is your son?

I don’t think it’s fair to punish him for a symptom that he can’t help, especially if he’s receiving no support with his SEN. Maybe he needs better supervision when paying with a tablet, or better protection on the tablet.

Not replace what he broke on purpose is not punishing him, though? Just letting him experience that if you break something you can’t use it anymore.

My DS has ASD and had a phase when he would throw things and it definitely wasn’t random, he knew what he was throwing, either things that we loved for ex my favorite mug, or things that he knew would break (plate) etc. After some time we explained that from now on if he destroyed our things on purpose he would have to give us something equivalent that belonged to him / contribute to buying a replacement using his pocket money.
Believe me or not, the amount of broken things decreased drastically! He still throws, but will choose objects that won’t be broken / are not ‘important’, for ex a random magazine or a pen.

goldierocks · 06/11/2023 10:03

Hi @Notts90

As mentioned already, black Friday starts on Amazon on 17th November. I previously got a 2-for-1 offer on Amazon Fire tablets, definitely worth waiting till then to see if they do something similar this year.

I can also recommend the Fintie Tuatara Rugged Unibody Hybrid case. They don't look like cases for toddlers.

kaka79 · 06/11/2023 10:17

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Smellslikesummer · 06/11/2023 11:10

Absolutely @kaka79 this won’t necessarily be true for all the spectrum.

BertieBotts · 06/11/2023 14:09

It's all just bloody difficult sometimes. I don't know what behaviour is just typical kid behaviour or what behaviour is down to his additional needs. And even that there are so many opinions on how to actually deal with said behaviour.

It really really is. There seems to be no official guide book but those are the resources I've found to be the most helpful. You do have to screen out 90% of what people say because most assumptions people have about behaviour are not going to apply in your case.

I'm home now so I can try to sort out the recs a bit more.

If you find yourself often dealing with the question "Why is he doing this?" or up against behaviour you aren't sure if he can control or not, or if your attempts to change behaviour seem to make things worse - look at the dysregulation stuff. Because this helps you differentiate between conscious behavior that can be managed or strategies taught, vs stress behaviour, which is hard to address directly (you need to address the indirect ie the stress behind the reaction, and teach self regulation skills and practice co-regulation).

That's Brain-Body Parenting and Self-Reg. Maybe The OT Butterfly too.

If you're fairly good at noticing when the behaviour is something controlled vs a stress response and you're looking to reduce/manage the stress situations, look at The Explosive Child, Too Fast Too Tight, OT Butterfly.

If you're fairly good at differentiating these and you're looking for something to help build specific skills or solve specific problems,, look at the points system or the explosive child or the ADHD specific books or anything at all to do with executive functioning.

If you are wondering what kind of impairments ADHD and ASD causes at the root level rather than just at the surface visible/behavioural level, look at Russell Barkley and The Occuplaytional Therapist. There are probably more/better resources for ASD too. I'm not as familiar with these.

If this is all greek to you and/or if you've read so much child behaviour theory you could open a library, but none of it actually works in practice, try starting by identifying which step you're on in Calm the Chaos. It's actually right at the end of the kindle sample, which you can read on the amazon website if you don't have a kindle.

Some of the reviews of this book say it's too confusing trying to cover too much ground with too much repetition, but I think they misunderstood what it's actually for; you're meant to identify what stage you're at, read and follow the action plan for that stage and combine with external resources, it's not really a digest this entire book in one go kind of thing (if I understood correctly anyway).

Likewise Conscious Discipline has what they refer to as a "pyramid" where you have to get the bottom layer solid before you move onto the next. Great model. It is written for teachers, but I think that's OK.

2023aaa · 06/11/2023 14:15

YANBU, replace DD’s. She’s proven she can own one without breaking it. He chooses to smash them so no need to replace both until he can manage it.

Just make sure DD knows to keep hers safely out of his way.

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