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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To let my siblings get on with it.

49 replies

Whoopy · 05/11/2023 22:38

Df died a few years ago, leaving dm alone. She sold up and bought a house near me, though my brothers and sister are close by too. She relies on me for many things, from helping her if she is unwell (e.g. she hadn’t been feeling well overnight but waited until I had finished a nightshift to phone me, instead of phoning one of my siblings), to sorting fuses (old plug in style) when they blow or general upkeep / redecorating in her house.

I know both of my brothers have tried to buy her house, as an investment, which she refused. Brothers have now asked both my sister and I to chip in and buy the house between us (at much less than half the value of the house), obviously up-keeping the house and allowing her to live there for the rest of her life. Brother has said this to her and she seems quite keen. The thing is, I can’t afford to do this (which I’m 100% certain my siblings knew, before they asked me). They are still wanting to push ahead, but now only giving her 3/4 (£45k for a house worth around £170-180k) of what they had said they would give her.

I have to admit I am more than a bit pissed off. They are going to be paying £15k each and looking to get over £50k in return. Dm has spoken to me and said that she won’t go ahead with this if I’m not happy. What the hell can I say back to her? Of course dm, go ahead it’s not a problem or tell her I’m pretty pissed off.

She has also said, that if she sells to them, she hopes it won’t change her being able to call me when she needs help. So Whoopy my fuses have blown, can you come and fix them, or will you come and plumb in my new washing machine or dishwasher, decorate my bedroom etc.? I did reply to this saying that if she is ill I would help, but there is no way I would continue doing these other jobs for her and she would have to call one of the others and she has taken the huff with me.

Would I be unfair to just give her her key back, to give to one of my siblings, though I know none of them would drop everything to go down and help her, like I have done?

OP posts:

Bonbon21 · 05/11/2023 22:44

Well their masterplan is full of holes and is a disaster waiting to happen. Your Mum needs to get legal advice urgently.
This really shouldnt go ahead... she is going to be so vulnerable on so many levels.
I know you are upset at the moment but I would urge compassion. Get in touch with her when you are calmer and have a proper talk about her future.... particularly safeguarding it.

Dinglewoop · 05/11/2023 22:47

It sounds like a really bad deal for your mum? What if she needs to go into assisted living or a care home and then runs out of money? Also sounds like you're being cut out of your share of the potential inheritance just because you have the least money at the moment. The whole thing just seems off. I'd be tempted to tell your mum you don't think it's the best idea.

Mothership4two · 05/11/2023 22:51

Agree with Bonbon. Talk to her and be honest. She needs definitely needs legal.advice.

I am a complete numpty in this area but I cannot see how it's allowable to buy your elderly parent's home from them at a much lower amount than the market value without some consequences. Otherwise lots of people would do this to save on the cost of care and swerve or reduce inheritance tax.

Original poster

Whoopy · 05/11/2023 22:57

Thank you. You are all making very valid points. I don’t think any of them has considered what would happen (regarding her house) if she had to go into care. I suspect that my siblings think I would take her to live with me, if she couldn’t manage at home and they’d get their money quicker.

OP posts:

jlpth · 05/11/2023 22:58

Seems crazy

What is the point? I don't get it.

The house won't be subject to inheritance tax at a value of £180k

You will all inherit it won't you?

If they own a home already, any profits on them owning your mum's will be subject to capital gains tax (?)

Haffdonga · 05/11/2023 22:58

This could be seen as deprivation of assets if your mum ever needs care. Get your mum financial and legal advice from an expert in care funding before agreeing to anything. It could be a disaster not just for your mum but also you and your siblings down the line.

jlpth · 05/11/2023 22:58

The siblings just sound like they want house money and don't give a shit about your mum?

dancingdaisies · 05/11/2023 23:06

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn at the request of the poster.

UpaladderwatchingTV · 05/11/2023 23:09

Why is it always the one who cares the most, that gets shafted by their siblings? This sort of behaviour makes me cross, and in your shoes, I'd be really angry if your DM allowed it to happen, so I really do think you need to tell her that you are very unhappy about them doing this, and also draw her attention to all of the other things that PP's have mentioned. Your siblings appear to be looking at the whole thing in a very simplistic manner, and can only see £ signs, but clearly don't give a monkey's about their DM or you OP.

Original poster

Whoopy · 05/11/2023 23:10

@Haffdonga it wouldn’t affect me as the house would belong to my siblings and I suspect they think I would take her to live with me, if she couldn’t manage at home. However, I can’t afford to give up my job to look after her.

OP posts:

Original poster

Whoopy · 05/11/2023 23:17

@UpaladderwatchingTV if I tried to put dm off selling to them, it would affect my relationship with her. Siblings have put this forward as giving her some money to spend now and I will have prevented that.

OP posts:

Bonbon21 · 05/11/2023 23:22

It is pretty obvious that they think if they get their hands on your mothers house she wont have to pay when / if she goes into to care and they will get their 'inheritance' in total for a little outlay now. That will be seen as deprivation of assets. And the local authority will take them to court.

It is not up to you to take your mother in when/if she cant manage on her own. Dont let anyone tell you differently.

This is all sounding like financial abuse if they are putting any pressure on her... she is turning to you because her other children clearly dont give a shit. That doesnt mean you have to run around for her. If she is struggling/no longer safe at home on her own get an assessment carried out. That way she will be in the 'system' which will safeguard her to a certain extent.
These requests for help might be a pain for you, but it is also a way of keeping an eye on her.

Vinrouge4 · 05/11/2023 23:23

Whoopy · 05/11/2023 23:10

I think you need to make it clear to your siblings and your mum that you will not be able to care for her if needed as you need to work. Also that once they own the house you will be stepping back from maintaining it. Please don’t let them walk all over you.

OhNoForever · 05/11/2023 23:24

Tell her no, you are not happy! They are trying to rob you of your inheritance. Speak up for yourself.

Original poster

Whoopy · 05/11/2023 23:31

@Bonbon21 “It is pretty obvious that they think if they get their hands on your mothers house she wont have to pay when / if she goes into to care and they will get their 'inheritance' in total for a little outlay now. That will be seen as deprivation of assets. And the local authority will take them to court”.

Exactly this, but they probably think I would take her to live with me, rather than let her go into care.

OP posts:

Davros · 05/11/2023 23:32

Well then, don't let them think that

Softwear · 05/11/2023 23:42

If your mum signs her house over to them she will have absolutely no legal rights to stay there if they evict her.

perhaps she should gift you a quarter outright as recompense for alll your help so far... (thought I wouldn't want to get into a joint ownership situation with such sly siblings!)

Almostlegible · 05/11/2023 23:45

I would tell her that you feel you have always done your best for her and supported her, and now that she is considering giving your 3 siblings some instant equity in her house, you feel upset because she is giving this to the siblings who can afford it, and not to you simply because you’re not as well off as them.

Original poster

Whoopy · 05/11/2023 23:55

My dm asked me a couple of years ago, if I would give up work to look after her, if needed. I said I couldn’t as I needed a proper income. She said she would pay me and I asked her what with? Her response was her savings and she followed this up by saying she has nearly £20k in savings, which I explained would cover about 10 months wages for me.

I know she had about £10k more than that in savings the previous year and asked her where the rest of her savings had gone and she clammed up. The following day she said to me that the rest of my siblings weren’t as well off as I thought and that my sisters dh only earns about £100 per week. I told her that was absolute rubbish, but she insisted it was true as my ds had told her so. Apparently ds had been in tears about money. I assured her that there was no way he only earned that and she asked if I was sure, which I said I was. She then went to her jewellery box and gave me her gold necklace and told me to sell it and keep the money (I didn’t). No prizes for guessing where the other £10k went!

OP posts:

TeaGinandFags · 05/11/2023 23:57

At the very least get an estate agent to provide a proper market value.

What your siblings are suggesting is theft: cheating your mum of the true value of her home. Additionally with no home to her name, they want to foist her care 100% onto you. So abandonment too. Speak with the police who will be happy to listen.

Call an estate agent and explain and situation. Your siblings will scream to the rafters but tough. If you mum sells she's entitled to not get cheated. Get power of attorny if mum is being silly.

Peachy2005 · 06/11/2023 00:05

Sounds like financial abuse by siblings: get legal advice pronto.

Original poster

Whoopy · 06/11/2023 00:10

@TeaGinandFags unfortunately dm is old fashioned. The eldest son should look after things (apart from all the menial jobs she asks me to do), so he is executor of her will and if there has to be a power of attorney it would be him. He is the one who has 5 properties. He charged her £2.50 when he got her some screws, for a job I had said I would do. Didn’t bother to do the job though.

OP posts:

Original poster

Whoopy · 06/11/2023 00:24

Softwear · 05/11/2023 23:42

If your mum signs her house over to them she will have absolutely no legal rights to stay there if they evict her.

perhaps she should gift you a quarter outright as recompense for alll your help so far... (thought I wouldn't want to get into a joint ownership situation with such sly siblings!)

You know @Softwear, she probably would do this if I asked, but my siblings would call me to the dogs to everyone they could, saying I was only helping her to get my hands on her money.

OP posts:

saraclara · 06/11/2023 00:35

You need to make it clear to your siblings that you will not be caring for her when she can't cope herself. And that if she goes into a care home, buying her house at a fraction of its value will be considered as deprivation of assets and the council WILL come after them.

If she needs money from the house, then there are better and legally sound (if not great) ways to release some of its value.

Weenurse · 06/11/2023 00:48

Legal advice.
Put it to her that she wouldn’t want your siblings to be worse off for helping her. Legal advice is needed to make sure everyone knows what to expect and what is expected.
ie. DM will have to go into care if required as you need your wage.
house will need to be sold for care costs.
siblings will be responsible for repairs and upkeep, which sibling to call etc
Good Luck

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