AIBU to think it's unfair same sex couples can get IVF on the NHS but not single women?

[CateB78]

https://news.sky.com/story/fertility-inequality-how-single-women-are-facing-ivf-discrimination-and-financial-strain-12996293

Do you realise how grotesque and offensive your second statement is?

Im not against single women or men having a child.

I think the nhs should do more preventative work with identifying pcos and thyroid issues. Keeping womens tsh around 1 etc.
Talk more about men and womens weight affecting fertility. We need to be encouraging women to start ttc by 30 as it seems to be affecting rates of sen.
But fixing the job abd housing markets and the number of not so great men around.

In contrast most people i know who did ivf were not old (though there were older people at the clinic). Mixture of male factor/pcos/thyroid/unexplained. One couple were around 27. We were 31.
My school friend had natural children at 39 and 40.

What if a man has had a vasectomy reversal and it hasn’t worked, should he and his new partner be entitled to IVF on the NHS?

I don’t think either party should get it paid for by the working public. Actually nobody should but we shouldn’t be encouraging single mothers at all because it’s not good for society and statistics bear this out.

Oh give over.

We spent a shade over £60k creating our IVF child. Given that the vast majority of people in the UK with a child wouldn’t have a spare £60k lying around, it’s a completely incorrect line trotted out by people who have never had to consider the reality of infertility.

No one should be getting NHS funded IVF.

I suppose that probably depends on whether he already has children.

If he had a vasectomy because he has already got kids and decided he didn't want more, he wouldn't be entitled to it anyway. You can only get it if you don't already have biological children.

I don't think that ivf should be offered at all on the NHS- however if a heterosexual sexual couple have a medical condition that causes infertility
Then the NHS should provide funding on an individual case basis for private treatment.

Most (if not all) NHS trusts will not offer IVF if either party has been deliberately sterilised.

No

Then the NHS should not be paying for it. If people wish to pay that's up to them but I find it abhorrent that we have so many children needing families and we are using NHS money to create more children because of people's sense that they are 'entitled' to it.

No. The NHS should not fund it.

That’s what I said.

Careful by saying same sex couples instead of lesbian couples you are including gay men and surrogacy in the group who "need assistance " and that is a very dangerous slippery slope.

For those of you who think ivf and having children is a human rights issue please read below and think very carefully about what you are advocating.
This push for having a child as a human rights issue is a push to make women less than human. Ask yourself which women should be forced to risk her life and future fertility for egg harvesting?
Which women should be forcibly impregnated and forced to risk her life, health and future fertility to carry and birth a child that will be given away immediately.
What about the child's rights not to be caused lifelong harm by being ripped from its mothers arms at birth just because an adult or2 want a child.
As for those who think it will only be women who volunteer for this your wrong because most women won't want to do any of it just to give the baby away.
The only way that surrogacy happens at the limited levels it does now is because poor women in other countries with no choice are paid to do so so its already exploiting women.
Ask yourself how many women should be put through all of this and how many forced pregnancies and births should each women be put through to allow men and women to have as many babies as they want because it's their human right.

I often wonder why people never seem to consider adoption ?
They spend thousands of £ - put themselves through mental and physical torment of ivf. They never mention why they haven't considered adoption ?

It's certainly divisive on whether or not the NHS should fund IVF and people have different views which are valid and interesting.

But just as an aside on your point about the number of children needing families - not every couple who want a child are suitable candidates for adoption. Most children needing foster/ adoptive parents have some very complex and difficult issues to work through. It is a very different kettle of fish to having a child of your own and raising them from birth, and adoptive parents need to have all kinds of knowledge, empathy and understanding and face issues which most parents do not.

It's a different ball game, as it were, and can't really be compared.

Your eligibility completely depends on your postcode. Some same sex couples are not required to self fund IUI, some are.

How many of those unwanted children have you fostered or adopted?

There is a difference between a right to have a child and a right to have medical treatment for your infertility. The health considerations, both mental and physical, of infertility can be complex. I was in a huge amount of pain that is now under some control (some issues remain) as I was able to take medication for it after my daughter was born following IVF. If IVF wasn’t offered I would not have taken the medication, as it stops my periods and I would have wanted to keep taking the slim chance each month that we might get a successful pregnancy that we wouldn’t lose, and would have had to suffer that pain as well as an almost unbearable mental anguish. I coped because IVF was available on the NHS, and I eventually, after nearly 4 years TTC, was able to access it. I will be forever grateful to the NHS for my daughter. What I do agree with is strict IVF criteria for IVF which my clinic had (woman under 42, no living child, BMI under 30, both partners non smoking) because success is going to be much lower with those categories. My clinic had success rates far higher than the national average.

I would be interested to know how much is spent on IVF vs other “elective” procedures. I imagine it’s a drop in the ocean.

Because adoption is not in anyway comparable to IVF.

"I often wonder why people never seem to consider adoption ?
They spend thousands of £ - put themselves through mental and physical torment of ivf. They never mention why they haven't considered adoption ?"

Because some women want to give birth to their own child?

If you read the article one of the women talks about it.

The NHS funded my orthodontic treatment when I was a teenager.

I had an impacted canine which was embedded in my soft palate and making its way forward and might eventually have pushed my front teeth out. Or it might not. The NHS could have just removed the tooth and left me with a milk tooth which might have fallen out at any moment, and left me to get an implant at my own, or my parents' expense. But they did the job properly. Admittedly this was 20 years ago. I don't know whether I would be so lucky now.

Suggesting that the NHS should only fund medical treatment for life threatening conditions is promoting a race to the bottom approach to healthcare. As a wealthy country, we should be able to do better than urgent care only.

But I'm increasingly coming to the view that the NHS funding model is unsustainable. An insurance based model doesn't have to mean US style healthcare where paying for your medical treatment can bankrupt you. Hybrid public/private insurance based healthcare systems work well in countries such as France and the Netherlands.

Sorry but I’m not keen on the NHS spending money on producing more children in an overpopulated society.

@Chris002 Most infertile people/ couples do consider adoption, and there are many reasons why adoption is not the right choice for everyone. See my post above.

Oh my god! How silly we were, spending three years undergoing unpleasant intrusive treatment when I just could have adopted! You’re the first person to ever think of that!

Of course people consider adoption but it is not a consolation prize for not able to have a child and it’s extremely offensive to phrase it as such. It is a very different route to parenthood. There’s not a surfeit of cute babies just waiting for mums and dads, and quite often children need parents equipped to take on medical, mental and physical issues as well as potentially inter generational trauma. Why didn’t you adopt, out of interest?